The Venus Cuckoldress Podcast

Somatic Sex Coach Sara Perry - Blow Your Mind, Heal Your Body, and Thrive With Cuckolding

Venus / Sara Perry Season 4 Episode 24

This episode features Sara Perry, an expert somatic sex coach, who provides invaluable insights into navigating the emotional challenges of cuckolding, such as jealousy and shame. She tackles the misconceptions surrounding cuckolding and offers practical advice for singles and couples on setting and evolving boundaries while embracing one's sexuality without judgment. Learn how her practice integrates mind, body, and spirit to support individuals and couples in addressing big emotions and societal pressures. This episode is packed full of valuable information, resources and advice for couples so that they can thrive in a healthy cuckolding relationship.

Links:

Sara Perry https://www.saraperry.com/
Haven Space Coaching https://www.havenspacecoaching.com/
Haven Space YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@havenspacecoaching
Somatic Sex Coach List https://www.somaticainstitute.com/sex-coach-near-me/
Haven Space Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/haven-space/id1507429724

Find Venus on Bluesky 🦋 https://bsky.app/profile/cuckoldressv.bsky.social
Listen to the Bonus episode: "Kneeling at the BBC Altar" on the private podcast https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/Queens-quarter or Apple podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-venus-cuckoldress-podcast/id1495573107

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Speaker 1:

Here's what's coming up on the show.

Speaker 2:

That's the person who makes the ultimate choice of control, the person who says I trust you, I feel safety with you. The moment that person doesn't feel that anymore, it's gone. So ultimately the submissive person, 100% of the time, is carrying the weight of that. So when we start to rationalize it if we want to rationalize it absolutely the position of being the submissive or being cuckolded then translates to you being actually more powerful, because you were so powerful that you were safe enough in your power that you were free to relinquish it.

Speaker 1:

This is the Venus Cuckoldris podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious, for the passionate and for the sexually empowered woman who wants it all. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, venus. Thanks so much for joining me today. I am crazy excited about this show today because I've talked about cuckolding for so many years. It is thrilling, it is fun, it is exciting. It's all the good things, but it also sucks sometimes.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot to this the fantasy, the desire, navigating the relationship. That's fucking hard. It's hard for women and men and couples and bulls and everything. It's not easy. There's a lot of uncomfortable shit that you got to navigate through sometimes and it's fucking hard. So I have brought in Sarah Perry. She's a somatic sex coach and she's going to talk about some oh my God finally some resources, some techniques, some tips, some advice for singles and couples who maybe have a hard time, which is many of you going through this. She's got it. She's finally I'm able to bring you some solid, good stuff to work with here when it comes to cuckolding relationships we're going to talk about. You know how to get through cuck angst, because that's not easy. That's a lot of difficulty when we're talking about not just in the moment of like oh it's so hot, it's like I'm kind of jealous but it's so hot but like all of the emotional fuckery that happens after that cuckolding scenario, especially for the guy, like for the cucks that's, that's hard. We're going to talk about that. And we're also going to talk about shame. Shame is something that almost all cucks carry around this fantasy, this desire, this love for, for cuckolding and and it's really detrimental for a lot of guys. So we're going to talk about she's. She gives some tips and suggestions about that. But also for the women, for the ladies who have to deal with slut-shaming I mean, sometimes we're our own worst enemy around that in that, like you know, we give ourselves a hard time about feeling good about our sexuality. So we're going to talk about that. Relationship dynamics, sharing desires and fantasies with your partner, how to check in with your partner and when, and addressing the emotional and physical needs of your partner in a cuckolding relationship and setting boundaries. Those are just some examples of what we're talking about today.

Speaker 1:

So, like I said, really important episode. This is filled with great tips, suggestions, advice and resources. So get your pen and paper and make sure you take notes. I've also included all of the links that you'll need in the show notes or description notes for today's episode. So just have a look there. You can find everything there. There's also a link to Sarah Perry's YouTube channel that has her meditation videos. So there's one for body love, which is fucking amazing. There's also a full body scan meditation video, which is amazing to use when you're going through cuck angst. So check out those links in the description notes.

Speaker 1:

Okay, just a couple of announcements before we jump into the show today. So I recently went to Splash Mocha and that was in Houston. This is my third year and I had a fucking blast. As you can imagine if you know what Splash Mocha is, there's a whole bunch of couples and single black guys. So, yeah, venus had fun and I just released a bonus episode in it. It's called Kneeling at the BBC Altar. Ooh, yeah, I was the queen of the glory hole. So, anyway, that bonus episode is a recount of all of my naughty little things that I got up to at the Splash Mocha party. So you can catch that on the private podcast, that's, if you belong to any one of the three subscription tiers that supports the podcast on VenusCuckoldresscom, you get access to all of the bonus episodes and the huge library of bonus episodes so you can go to VenusCuckoldresscom and subscribe to that if you haven't, or you could just download it on Apple Podcast subscriptions. So on Apple Podcasts, the Venus Cuckoldress podcast you'll see all the bonus episodes are on there as well. Links in the show notes for today. Last announcement in the show notes for today Last announcement I've been talking about recently on episodes on here about Blue Sky, the Blue Sky app, and I fucking love it.

Speaker 1:

It was one of my helpful Cuck members who he DM'd me and was like hey, have you heard about the Blue Sky app? And I was like no, I have no idea what that is and he's like's, just like twitter. But it's better and he's right. So I have shut down my twitter, which fucking felt amazing because I, like myself and many other women on there, have faced so much vitriol and hate and just a lot of shit really over, especially over over the last few months, the last year. It's been really not a nice place to be, so I haven't really spent much time on there. So I've shut that down and moved over entirely to Blue Sky, the Blue Sky app, and it is so lovely there, like everyone is so nice and it's very much interactive way more interactive than before.

Speaker 1:

They have these starter pack things, which is pretty fucking awesome. Basically, like you can put all your favorite accounts in one list and share it with other people and like here, follow these peeps, and they can just like with one click of a button, follow them all. Oh, it's awesome. So, anyway, blue Sky fun place to be. It's growing by like a million people a day because it's really popular right now.

Speaker 1:

But if you don't follow me on there, make sure you look me up. My handle is at CuckoldressV, same one as Twitter, and yeah, it's a great place. So the link is in the show notes for today. If you want to go and join, all right. That's it for announcements.

Speaker 1:

Let's jump in to this episode. Here we go, all right, joining me on the show today. I have such a fantastic guest. I'm really excited for this. Sarah Perry is joining me and here's a little bit about her. Sarah is a radically inclusive feminist from Venezuela that deeply identifies with the role of a healer, mother and holder of space. She guides two powerful, growing humans and a slew of otherwise uncomfortable people in her private practice in Houston, texas. She holds an undergrad in women's gender and sexuality studies, a master's in general psychology and a certification of sexological bodywork and somatic sex education. Her current goals are expanding her own neurological capacity for pleasure and attention and advocating for ASECT I've heard of this certification for graduates of the field of SSE and SBW and eventually garnering insurance support so more people can have access to this type of healing. So, sarah, welcome to the show. Say hello to all the listeners.

Speaker 2:

Hi everyone. I'm Sarah and I want to give the land acknowledgement to the land that I personally am sitting on is unceded and also unowned land of the nomadic tribes of the Sana peoples, the Itakapa Ishak speaking people, the Kwatwitlikans and the Karankawa.

Speaker 1:

I'm just amazed how you pronounced all of that, and I love that you did that. So thank you so much. Okay, you are what you call a somatic sex coach. So I've heard of a sex coach, obviously, but I've never heard of a somatic sex coach, so I had to look it up. So, and I'm excited to talk about this, so what is that? How is it different from like a sex coach?

Speaker 2:

So I use the term coach because it has to do with finding solutions. So so many people can be all kinds of coaches for different things. Specifically for me it's sexuality and intimacy. But somatics has to do with the integration of the idea of what's your mind, your spirit and your body. So we talk about somatics. We talk about what if all those were one thing and the messages that your body's giving you every time you have an itch or a gut feeling and it's like a very specific tension. What if all of those things are actually just as much a part of your brain and so much a part of your spirit? So we integrate all of that to start paying attention to the messages of our body and not just rationalizing our way.

Speaker 1:

Right, so it sounds very holistic. Yeah, absolutely Okay. So I'm excited to have you on the show because I've had, you know, I've talked about cuckolding for so many years and I sometimes romanticize it a lot and it's just this beautiful, amazing kind of like oh, it's an amazing kind of relationship and it's just so bonding and so loving, so trusting and all these things like that relationship and it's just so bonding and so loving, so trusting and all these things like that. But in real life it's not easy and there are a lot of big emotions and feelings and issues that can come up with couples and I've had them reach out over many years. Lots of people say can you please have someone on your show who can help with that? So I'm so happy to have you on the show today so we can go over some of these like common issues that couples have, singles or couples have when it comes to cuckolding or the cuckolding lifestyle or this kind of relationship. So I'm excited, let's dig in.

Speaker 1:

So now, like I know that with cuckoldolding, this is mostly a relationship for couples, right, there are some singles who, uh, can I guess, hire like a dominatrix or prodom and have like a cuckolding session, and that's something you know, something on its own, but this is mostly for couples, so this is within the realm of an existing relationship. Then there are singles who are, like myself, out there in the dating world being like, okay, this is something that I want to have, and that has its own set of like difficulties. But what I have found over the years is that you know, there's some very specific challenges around cuckolding, that, when it comes to like women or men, around things like shame or fear of being, you know, outed, or the discretion part is like major and stuff like that. So how do you, how would you be able to in your practice that? So how do you, how would you be able to, in your practice, like, be able to help couples when it comes?

Speaker 2:

to these kinds of things. So it would be really specific to the person coming and having an issue. If the couple comes in because they both want to seek a solution, normally one of them it's kind of more comfortable with the role and the other one wants some other tools and support. So I think a lot of the way that we start is because we always go little by little. You're like listening to what your body's saying and learning to feel comfortable in that sensation and it can't happen like bam, here's the scary thing. You have to feel it because you disassociate, right.

Speaker 2:

So what happens is we start having conversations and then we create these scenarios. At first they can be theoretical, like imagine you are at a bar and your boss walks in or a peer walks in and your wife is actually talking to another guy, like how do we navigate this? So then we go through how does that feel in your body? Right, let's talk about this emotion. We go through how does that feel in your body, let's talk about this emotion. Then we just break down what could happen, like what are the real consequences? Because most of us have all of these big anxieties about things that are really unlikely to happen. Yes, but our bodies show up for us because they protect us. It's like this amazing tool we have Right. It's like this amazing tool we have right. So, acknowledging that that anxiety is a message and saying, oh, I'm so lucky that I get to have a body that communicates transparently and now that I've gotten the message, I can process it however I choose to, is just so important and so empowering.

Speaker 1:

Once you have that, you have kind of the stepping stones for moving forward in however you want to feel met okay, something just really resonated with me with what you said, because you were talking about the fear being greater than it. You know it's kind of exaggerated. One of the fears that I'm sure for all the guys listening right now, I know you can relate when I tell you this. Like so many of the guys who I've met have had this like enormous fear of being outed, that enormous fear of somebody finding out that they're into this and this.

Speaker 1:

I've always said like it's very detrimental, not just to themselves but to their relationships or potential relationships or dating or whatever. And it like it is hard for me because I'm like, ok, I understand that you don't want other people to find out. I get that Like not everybody's me flaunting that this is what they like to do in the bedroom, but like, but to live in so much fear over that that it kind of like rules your life, this, this like huge fear and and how, when you want your partner to engage with this with you, you're kind of inviting them into that fear space as well and that can't be healthy. So I like have you come across a lot of this in your practice where guys are like especially because you know you're within the sexuality realm, where guys and women, of course, but especially guys when it comes to a fetish or a desire or fantasy like cuckolding, which is very taboo and very, like you know, challenges the idea of masculinity and stuff that they have this like irrational fear of being outed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is absolutely something that I'm even processing with clients that I have right now is how we reconcile masculinity with vulnerability, and that all has to do with this very toxic society that we all contribute to that doesn't have a clear path for that. I actually heard from someone yesterday a friend of mine that in Ireland the tradition of being like a macho fighter man actually came back full circle because that macho man was not considered a true fighter unless he came home and wept and wrote poetry about his battles. Yeah, and so it's really interesting that this is coming up now, because I didn't know that about that concept. But it's so funny how now that's been totally erased right, like not just the idea that you could possibly enjoy your wife enjoying other people, but also the fact that you enjoy her being powerful comes across as you being less powerful.

Speaker 2:

But if we're trying to rationalize it, the person that has control in power, differential dynamics is always the person that chooses to give up control, that's the person who makes the ultimate choice of control, the person who says I trust you, I feel safety with you. The moment that person doesn't feel that anymore, it's gone. So ultimately, the submissive person a hundred percent of the time, is carrying the weight of that. So when we start to rationalize it, if we want to rationalize it, that, so, when we start to rationalize it, if we want to rationalize it absolutely, the position of being the submissive or being cuckolded then translates to you being actually more powerful, because you were so powerful that you were safe enough in your power that you were free to relinquish it. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, I have been thinking that in my mind for so many years. You've just articulated it perfectly. This is always something that I felt like where? Because I feel like for a lot of the guys it's just like oh, I can't give up. I can't give up who I am, because you know she's going to disrespect me or she won't look at me the same or whatever.

Speaker 1:

And here I am saying that actually, we see that gift that you're giving us of trust and safety and giving up that power, and that being so monumental and just so amazing that we look at you in awe. That's amazing that my partner, who I love, is able to do this, and but guys, just like so many of them, just don't. They don't see that, they don't see that possibility. And I'm here, um, myself and many other women, like, oh my God, if, if you were just to give up that bit of power and and like we would adore you for it, I've, oh my god, I love that. You just said that. That was like a big moment for me when you just said so. I hope that everybody who's listening actually like rewinds and replays that over again. Maybe I'll put it in the trailer because like that was fucking amazing. I, I love that so much. That's, that's very, very powerful. So what other kind of issues do you see with like these power dynamic relationships such as cuckolding?

Speaker 2:

I think it's really important to have not only clear boundaries but permission, not just from your spouse but from yourself, to change your mind about what those boundaries are Like. When I think about society as a whole, we have a very hard time making it easy to change our minds. That comes from this culture of like what is it? Winners don't quit. Yes, they do. A lot of people quit terrible relationships and close businesses. You absolutely have a skill if you know how to quit, but it's the same if you have a skill when you know how to pivot and change your mind.

Speaker 2:

And it's the same with boundaries. A lot of times we don't realize we had a boundary until we cross it or it's been crossed. We have to assume that our partner didn't intend to cross our boundaries, unless that's what was hot, in which case you can be like oh, that one was a little bit crunchy than I thought it was going to be Okay, or just assume that they weren't trying to be hurtful and then move on and say can we renegotiate the way that this whole thing happened? And a lot of that specifically in like sharing partners can look like. Maybe my time during these specific moments needs to be prioritized more than time with these other partners that you have Right, and it could be like, I don't know, if you're having a really sad day or sometimes, when you have a sad day, you prefer that they go away so you can be alone. All of that can be negotiated, but it's so critical to be okay changing your mind.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and I love that. It's so funny because, like, I've talked to a lot of newbie couples into cuckolding over the years and like yeah, by far the first, one of the first boundaries that they come up together with is like no, kissing the bull. So she's not allowed to kiss the bull, because that would be like kind of romantic and we don't want that because that's dangerous, and like no, this is just sex. So but that's the first boundary that gets crossed, that one just flies out the window. Why? Because she's, she needs to feel comfortable in that moment. She needs to feel like she's in it, you know, and that she's in her sexuality.

Speaker 1:

And and I don't know about you, but for me the last thing I'm doing when I'm in that moment of sexual pleasure is scrolling through the checklist of oh, can I do that or can I not do that, like it's just that's really guaranteed to get me out of the mood real quick if I got to think about that shit. So within cuckolding I have experienced lots of couples who have had challenges around that. Where she's in the moment, she just feels like her body wants something, her mind wants something, her mind wants that, she wants to do something and she does it and then afterwards she's like oh fuck, like I wasn't supposed to do that yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I want to say that, being the person that tends to facilitate people changing their relationship dynamics, we all want to sit down and have this like laundry list of crap that we're expecting and we're like I know this is going to be weird and like we want to be in the same room, or you can't be in a different room, or you can't talk to someone when I'm not in the room. We have all these rules, right, but all of those rules are really there as kind of a net for us to feel comfortable with something that feels super edgy, right? So if you're doing the work to focus on staying super present with your own emotions and your own sensation in your body, eventually that net is. That's all it was. It was a framework. Everything inside of that can be negotiated. In fact, if you established a dynamic like cuckolding already, you know that everything can be negotiated.

Speaker 1:

This is very true, yeah, okay. So I love what you said about like it being a net, because it really is, and that's how I kind of felt, like I understand why there is the need for these rules, boundaries and limits and stuff like that. It's about keeping your comfort zone, boundaries where they are Right, and perhaps those two don't. Two things don't line up and I'm sure, like you said, you see that in your practice all the time. Where, like, people are trying to negotiate stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

I saw that a lot in the swingers world. When I was involved in that before I knew about cuckolding, I was like there was so much negotiating back and forth about, yes, you have same room, no, you know, okay, if it's not the same room, but I have to get you my position permission first, or like there's all these little things and I remember thinking like, god, that seems like a lot to remember, a lot to deal with, but couples do it and they, they, they do it because they want each other to feel safe and secure and all this, the net, and a lot of times that's just like the stepping stone into actually just go, do whatever the hell you want.

Speaker 2:

see you tonight. Right, you know so, and it has to happen, because we've been taught that you won't be safe unless you are jealous. We've been taught that you won't be safe if your partner can explore other people. But we don't live in that world anymore. Like, I can probably still feed myself and my children if my spouse chooses not to be with me. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so our safety gauge is still that safety gauge, but we live in this world where actually we're going to be fine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're gonna be okay. Okay, let's talk about jealousy Because, yes, okay. Over the years, many, many, many cucks have reached out to me not knowing how to deal with this cucky angst, I call it, which is that like mix of emotions. This is terribly sexy and hot. She's going out with this other guy. She's never been out with another guy. Like this is. I'm scared, I'm nervous, I feel like I'm going to throw up, but also I'm insanely turned on.

Speaker 1:

This is like this crazy thing of emotional stuff that happens with cucks when their partner is going to be having some sort of sexual encounter with somebody else. How they deal with that, because it's one thing to watch cuck porn and be like, oh, that's fucking hot and sexy and everything like that, and a whole other thing in real life to do this. It can go horribly wrong and I love the fact that you're you know in this holistic mode of healing and coaching with people, because this involves like cuck angst, involves understanding what your body is going through. One minute they want to throw up. The next minute they've had the best orgasm of their life. Poor cucks like this is a lot to go through. How can guys anticipate what that might be like for them or navigate it when they're going through it in a healthy way where it's not going to be detrimental to their relationship.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So totally yes. I want to acknowledge that this definitely happens and it happens to people who have been doing it forever as well. I think that it's important to talk about, like the physiology of it. Biologically, the same part of our brain that's responsible for sexual arousal is responsible for other forms of arousal, so like being scared and running away or freezing right or fawning like you're going into fake mode so that someone will be happy with you. So it makes sense that a lot of these emotions happen at the same time as very intense arousal.

Speaker 2:

I would suggest to people to create a boundary within yourself about maybe if your partner is going on a date this is a conversation that needs to be had long after, not when the partner arrives from the date like you don't get to throw a fit tantrum so that then you get more attention.

Speaker 2:

Acknowledge like, oh, it would be really nice and accommodating to get more attention, and I'll just say I would love a lot of attention when you get home and you can say that at the end of the day you don't have to interrupt the day, right, it's like make little boundaries within yourself that seem attainable, okay, and then when you're talking about those boundaries later really acknowledge what was going on with your body.

Speaker 2:

If you're in that moment where you're like processing all this crazy sensation, there's all kinds of YouTube videos for somatic body scans and that's literally just a guided way to pay attention to everywhere, from the tip of your nose to the tips of your toes, to say, okay, this part was tense. What happens if I release it, like once? Usually, if you have like a lot of tension in your stomach, you can change your posture and that dissipates. We have so much control over our what we're interpreting as a feeling if we just change our body posture. So, using some kind of guide that can keep you engaged while still paying attention to what's happening to your body and find ways to like change that posture and therefore that emotion and sensation can be like unleashing to this new power that you have, overtaking some control about how you're showing up with anxiety or with, you know, angst.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my gosh. I think that was one of the best suggestions, because I, up until now, haven't had much to suggest to these guys that are going through that and I know they reach out to other cuckolds and like, okay, like what do I do? Like I'm going through this. They're literally like having this anxiety, like meltdown, like oh my God and help, I'm like what do I do? But the YouTube videos regarding, like paying attention to how your body is feeling and making corrections yes, this is definitely something that guys can do. So what? What is something that women can do to help support their partner during that process?

Speaker 1:

I did have a couple on the show and this was brilliant. She wrote him a beautiful letter before she left and sealed the envelope and was like this is for you if you need it, if you go through, if you're losing it, if you're shutting down, if you're having that moment where you're just like open this and read it. And he did. I don't know what it said, he didn't share, but like I just thought that was so nice to be able to like think about that ahead of time and provide that kind of comfort for your partner. I thought that was amazing. Do you have any suggestions for what women could do to help support their guy when it comes to that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's a really sweet idea. It makes me, it inspires, inspires me to think of like things that your partner enjoys doing. Like in psychology we talk about sublimation sometimes. Like a good way to handle big emotions that are negative is to distract yourself with other positive things, like going to work out or cleaning the closet. You know, for some people and most of us engage in those behaviors naturally I personally think that that's a form of disassociation and that it's okay to feel big emotions, like we would benefit from just sitting in our big emotions and then think long-term it makes us better people.

Speaker 2:

But if we're not able to safe enough, comfortable enough to yet, then go sublimate, go do all the stuff you want to do. Maybe plan something for your spouse to be distracted, like have, like him, go out with the guys for drinks while you're out and even if it's on his mind, there'll be something going on. Or maybe he could go to a movie or something that he enjoys to do and you can plan it for him. And then you have a little bit of that like acts of service thing, cause you planned it. So we know you were thinking about them and you also have something that's actively distracting them.

Speaker 1:

A list of things to do. The cookie list keep him busy, I love it. The cookie do list, yeah. The cookie to do list, I love it, okay.

Speaker 1:

And then for women this is another big issue that I've come across is that, like a lot of women feel shame around their own sexuality, I, luckily, have never felt that.

Speaker 1:

I don't think I just always been slutty and been like, oh, whatever, it's all good, but I haven't struggled with it like most women have or do, and I get that. I could totally understand why they feel so much pressure to not, you know, enjoy and celebrate their sexuality, but in a cuckolding relationship it kind of requires them to do so. So you'll have, like this couple They've been married for a very long time and, and you know, monogamous the whole time and then he shares his desires and fantasies around cuckolding with her and she's like, oh, I don't think I could do that, like I would feel so dirty, I would feel so slutty, like what? Like I don't think I could do that. And this is a real stumbling block for them. I am sure you come across this in your practice, where you know women have to deal with sexual shame and guilt. How do you best support them or help them with this.

Speaker 2:

I think all we can do is try to like relight the match, because there was a time that they were attracted to other men and likely through society and through years that got suppressed, you know. So you can just start little by little. You could start being like, well, maybe don't go on a date and hook up with that guy, but when we're at a bar start telling me why you think someone's attractive, you know, and just start little by little. You don't have to like jump into the deep end and I promise there will be a day. If you go out enough by yourself at some point, there will be a moment that you meet people that you think are attractive and want to share your body with Absolutely, and so it doesn't have to be immediately. If you find a little path to start like trickling in the attraction for other people, I think it reignites.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's a great tip. I think it's like all these poor guys. Guys, when they bring it up to the wife they usually do it so wrong. They're like I just want you to go fuck a bunch of other dudes and I'm gonna watch like it's grabbing one right and she's just like what, first of all what? So start small, and there is so much fun that couples can have without her actually sleeping with other guys. Like it's a little bit scary to sleep with a random stranger dude.

Speaker 2:

Um not to mention it's like literally putting our lives in danger absolutely in different ways too.

Speaker 1:

I mean there's, yeah, there's, you know you could be assaulted. Um, you could have your physical health like fucked up because of it. Like you can I mean now, not to mention all the abortion bans and everything yeah, you're fucked if something happens. So, as a woman, but yes, starting slow and doing fun things, even just talking about a roleplay and everything like that Like guys, come on, how come you don't think about this, you just go straight to the, the porn ending in their mind, like in their mind they're just, and then they're dealing with all of the backlash, of that right.

Speaker 2:

Then they're dealing with all the angst and all the when. Really, if you would have titrated the whole thing from the start, it probably would have worked out a lot better for both.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yes, okay, guys, listening, guys, listening I hope you're listening to what she just said Absolutely Because, yeah, you're gonna jump in with both, you know, with both feet, and just be like Alright, let's do this. And then she's gonna go sleep with this other guy and like, oh, holy mad, there's so many things that can go wrong with that, but yeah, I also want to your way up to it.

Speaker 2:

We didn't. We didn't really start discussing this, but a lot of times the people that women are attracted to at least in my experience as being a woman are people that you've already had some contact with, For example, friends, coworkers, right, and most of those people are on the do not fuck list, right? Yeah, there's always going to be this little contingency of, oh, you want me to go sleep with a bunch of people. Well, Joe Blow over here has been hanging out at our house for three years and I think he's kind of cute. And then your spouse is going to say, well, absolutely not right. At least at first I'm not saying never, but isn't it interesting that we have to find a way to kind of curb that leaping point? You can't be so eager that it gives someone permission to cross boundaries.

Speaker 1:

that could be like really damaging boundaries for you and for your family and maybe for your work life, right, I found that a lot, actually, where a new couple is so he's like I want you to fuck some guy and I want to watch whatever. And then eventually she gets away like okay, but he wants it to be a random stranger for safe like, because he doesn't want her to catch feelings, right, he wants it to be just sex, like this guy's just gonna be a dick and that that's it like and that's his like comfort level. Okay, but her comfort level is something entirely different. Like you said, like she wants to know this person, she wants to feel safe with them, she wants to. Most women say they want to have some sort of connection with that person. They don't want it to just be I'm just going to fuck this random dude and then leave, like they want, like to know, they want to talk to them, get to know them. It's about emotional and physical safety, and so you have this disconnect where couples can't agree on something like that. Or she's like oh, maybe I'll sleep with my ex or something like that, which I'm like, holy shit, you want to really complicate things.

Speaker 1:

The potential for disaster, I don't know, seems pretty high. It's crazy, okay, so how? Like I know that it's with all of these sensations and emotions and stuff, and we talked about different strategies around managing cuck angst and the guilt and the shame and stuff like that. But all of the cuckold couples who I know, who are thriving in this lifestyle, they do this. One thing often is check in with each other and communicate about how they're feeling, but this is not something I think that a lot of couples regular, everyday couples like actually practice. But this seems to be the key to success when it comes to this kind of relationship. How would you recommend couples go about doing that? Actually, do they schedule time? How do people get in the routine of doing that?

Speaker 2:

I think you just have to be. It has to be on purpose. If you have to schedule it, schedule it. But I don't know how your schedule is. Mine is if you put something on my calendar, odds are I'll be busy that day in a week, like it just changes Right.

Speaker 2:

So there's something I love called the five minute game, and we play it. It's kind of a power differential game where you would set a timer for five minutes and then one person gets to choose if they want something done to them or if they want to do something to the other person for the five minutes. It could be sexual or non-sexual, but most of the time we're craving connection, so any kind of touch is nice. Sometimes it could be like I want you to just brush my hair and it turns out that five minutes is a really long time. That's why we set a timer.

Speaker 2:

And having these purposeful connections with people, with your partner, brings you back to feeling loved and taken care of, when you can ask for what you want. If what you want is to put your hands on them like I don't know, maybe your partner has like a fun part of their body that you like to squish or play with that. They typically wouldn't allow you to just because it's like doesn't happen. That's a good time to ask for that, and those five minutes are also a great time to have a conversation about how you're doing. Like, oh, I really missed you when I did this the other day and I thought of you and your hands are busy so you're not on your phone and typically children are pretty good about leaving you alone.

Speaker 2:

If you're very connected to someone else for the moment and if they're there, then they can be a part of it, like I'm jump on, but I'm doing this thing Like I'm brushing mom's hair right now, you know, and make it just a part of your check-in. And I like to make it a rule that good relationships have a five-minute game at least once a week, and we think it's hard to find time to get together. But if you can't take five minutes and that can be unscheduled, right, so it's not like it could just be. You got out of the shower and you're like do you have five minutes for the five minute game? And most of the time, even if you're running late, you have five minutes.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I think that's so important. I would definitely have to schedule stuff like that Cause, like I just feel like I forget, I would forget. You know you get so caught up in everyday thing the everyday life of busy shit, you know, especially you know parenthood like you forget everything else Just so involved in that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so one of the things that a lot of the guys in this lifestyle have written to me about, talk to me about, ask me about, book private chats to me about, is the same issue in that they brought this up to their wife. You know she, you know, may have participated in talking about it or whatever. Maybe they did some role play or maybe they, you know, use some toys in the bedroom or something like that, but over a period of time she kind of loses interest in it and he feels like he's like pushing this more and more and they're like how do I get my wife back into being interested in this? And this is like so common across the board. What do you think's going on with that? Did women just really like, are they just disinterested? Is it just a matter of them kind of getting them back into it, or is this something?

Speaker 2:

else.

Speaker 2:

I think that we're cyclical, like we tend to be really into stuff and then we get over that thing and then we're really into something else, and then and that doesn't mean we're not into that thing I think we tend to be really into stuff and then we get over that thing and then we're really into something else, and then that doesn't mean we're not into that thing.

Speaker 2:

I think we tend to be more into things that are easier to accomplish than going to sleep with someone else. Theoretically, that's very easy to accomplish, but it's not quite that simple, right. So I think we get like kind of navigate towards things that are easier to accomplish. Like maybe we're really into butt plugs for a while, because you own them and they're there, so you don't have to like hunt them down every time and feel safe with them, and you know what I'm saying. So I think we're all cyclical and I think you can absolutely bring someone back around to something if you just let it rest for a minute, because otherwise it gets annoying. It gets like well, what are you talking? Like I like other things, right? So I think it's important to allow someone to have their little ebb and flow.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. So for the cuckies listening, make sure that you understand that maybe she just needs a little bit of a break sometimes and that's okay. I feel like from the cucks who I've met and talked to over the years, this is very much something that they think about all the time, every day, that they're constantly thinking about these fantasies, that this is something that is really big and important to them. Okay, then, the next question I have for you is another very common situation that I see in this lifestyle, in that he brings it up to her. She wants nothing to do with it, nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1:

And I feel bad for these couples because I mean, just maybe she's just like it's not into it, like is that? And I tell these guys, I'm like, if, if you had, if she had, this, this fetish, where you were just like, oh, there's no fucking way, like there's no way, what would you do? Like I mean, it's not an easy situation to be in when somebody wants nothing to do with this other person's deep desires, deep, deep fantasies, like something that is such a big, seems to be a big part of what they want in their life. And what do you do? Are these couples just not compatible? Like are they. What should they do?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head right. I think sometimes you're just not into it and it's okay we don't do. First of all, we tend not to know what we're even into when we first meet our partners. But even if we are, that still changes over time. It's okay for your partners to have different like what I call like triggers, like the thing that really makes you come than you. It's totally okay.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully they're still willing to engage in some form of fantasy play, and I think that planting the seed for kind of fantasy play eventually loosens people up to the idea because we create patterns, so like if it's always hot and we're always telling the sexy story, then maybe it might happen. I'm not saying force it right, but I'm saying the odds of it happening are much more than if you would have never said anything. So I still think sometimes they're just not going to be into it. Hopefully your partners are still willing to like sauce things up, to turn you on when you're having sex, and maybe that leads to something more.

Speaker 1:

And for the ladies listening, like it's so easy just to say that little thing when you're having sex with your husband. Just whisper in his ear like, oh, totally fucked. That guy I saw on the bus today, like that's all you need to say and boom, he's happy as fuck. For a week after that he's riding on this high of like oh my God, I can't believe what she said. That was so hot. This is literally all we need to say to and and I feel like if you really love your partner, then you will find ways to have indulged their fantasies like that because it is important to them. And if and that's what you do when you love somebody doesn't mean you have to go and fuck a bunch of dudes, but you can learn to say these awesome little things, hot little things that are going to set them off completely into like I can't control myself when we're having sex. That is hot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, not to mention the fact that it's also a form of like being seen for your partner to think that it's worthy of you to have those things you think are sexy, even in play, right. It's like it will make someone feel much better that you were honest about what you wanted. If they can like, reciprocate. If they can say that is hot, babe, I see it, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, and that's like the nice thing to do, I think, for your partner. You know, like you said, to feel seen and to to make them feel loved. That's how you make somebody feel loved and safe in your relationship. So OK, now my last question. We've talked about couples a lot, but what about the singles? What about the singles Like part of the tricky part around dating in this lifestyle, knowing that you want somebody who also is open minded to your fantasies around cuckolding your desires, around cuckolding and seeking that out there is this like challenge Do you bring it up right in the beginning with somebody or do you wait until later on, let's say, six months to a year into the relationship where you bring it up.

Speaker 2:

What do you recommend? I think it depends. I'm actually in the process of dealing with this with a few of my clients right now who are single and looking for partners, and I think it depends on what ultimately they're looking for. If what they're looking for is to have a long-term, committed relationship and this is instrumental in that design then yeah, I think you can be honest at the beginning and say, look, I'm really into this, I like establish some kind of what boundary you would like Like for some people.

Speaker 2:

I have a client who has no interest in exploring other people himself, and I think that could be very important to a lot of women. So being able to communicate that that's not the interest I have. This is something I've really been into and I know that it's what I want from my future and from my wife and the mother of my children, and it's okay for that not to be what someone wants Like it's really fine and it's probably better to be in that situation than to be in what we were referring to earlier, where they've been married maybe for years and years and years and they're like hell. No, and, by the way, sometimes they're not even like accepting of that Sometimes they're like disgusted Right. So you don't want to be stuck in the situation where you're having to fight your own shame because in your house there's shame about what you like.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Right. I also think that if you are just casually dating, you just want a girlfriend and to do that you don't have to say it right away. I think you can casually date and that it's more likely to happen that way, because most of the time people make the lines of sexuality and monogamy really blurry when it's not a cemented relationship. So that's probably a more likely space for that to happen than already inside of a super committed dynamic or with someone who's like wanting a commitment commitment because it just feels unsafe Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, very good advice on that, I agree. I definitely have been one to be like it. Just it depends where you are in life. You're casually dating in your 20s and you're just like, oh fuck it, who cares? Like I'm just out here having fun, then who cares? But if you are looking for your life partner, I mean it makes all the sense in the world to me to bring it up in the beginning and figure out, like do we line up with this or not? But I think how you bring it up to a person is also very important, how you word it. Yeah, I've said over and over again on the show, like do not say you want cuckolding. Do not bring up kink language. Like don't say anything about that, just talk about it being a one-sided, open relationship that you're looking for, where she gets extra fun and you both love it that way. Just keep it simple. Ask me more about it. You know that kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

But I think it would be really a good idea for us to get together and create a kind of script for good language to use. Like we use that all the time in my practice and it would be really helpful for us to have like cue words that were like throw these in there, these might work better.

Speaker 1:

You know, absolutely. I think guys are starved for that kind of information because they truly don't know how to put it out there in a way that doesn't turn off a lot of women unnecessarily. And but then there's the other problem of like most guys, let's face it are way too scared to put anything about this on their dating profile or bring it up to my men. So there's that. We talked about this Cuck shame.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I do want to say that something we didn't mention at all that I think is important is that for all of the people listening who are very scared to be outed, think about what it would be like to find out that one of your best friends is also into that. Think about what it would be like to find out that your dad was into that, or your boss, and how freeing that would have been. And I think that it's a ton more common than we realize. It is that guys think that that's sexy and there's a lot of freedom that can happen if we are safe enough to tell just one friend, not to mention the fact that we feel much better when we're not hiding something about ourselves.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I would really like for guys to be able to understand what you just said. It's still very incredibly scary for a lot of men to even think about that, though, so I think there's some work that needs to be done, but I do have friends who have, who are open about it. I mean, they don't go out, like you know, purposely telling everybody, but they're open about it to people in their life and nothing catastrophic has happened to them. It's amazing. The world didn't end, they didn't lose their job, they didn't lose friends, they didn't lose family.

Speaker 1:

Like it was it very freeing, and every one of them says that is very freeing actually interviewed somebody on the show who was and this is a shitty story, but um sextorted, and this person, who pretended to be a woman, got his pictures and threatened to send them to. I mean, they had all of his boss's information, his parents, his ex-wife, like everybody, and instead of paying the money, he just went and told all of these people, and it forced him out of the closet and he said, like everybody was just like, all right, whatever, it's fine they don't care.

Speaker 1:

Even his boss was like it's fine, whatever, you have nothing to worry about. And even his parents they were like, oh, what did you, what'd you do that for? But they didn't care, you know. And he said like this was a very freeing experience for him and that like he doesn't have to worry about any of that anymore. Nobody judged him Like it was stressful as hell, but like life didn't end.

Speaker 2:

There's also this weird phenomenon of like the compulsory need to talk about fetishes where no one feels the need to talk about fucking in missionary style. You know, for some reason you don't have to disclose. I like to have doggy style sex, but you have to disclose. I like to get pegged.

Speaker 2:

So it's like it's not an even like no one actually cares about your sexuality, unless you're transgressive or gay. Otherwise, like you never have to come out of the closet as straight. Does that make sense? Yes, so I hate the rhetoric. Like you never actually have to come out of the closet as straight. Does that make sense? Yes, so I hate the rhetoric. Like you never actually have to come out of the closet. You don't actually ever have to do anything for anyone. And also, people are a lot less concerned with what you're doing with your partner, that you are committed and loving, especially if your life is otherwise stable. It's like that's the thing I've noticed Like if your life is a wreck, then everyone's judging all your kinky shit, but if your life is like, put together, everyone's like oh, that's very interesting of you yes, absolutely, if you're happy living your best fucking life together.

Speaker 1:

I mean, really nobody cares what you're doing in the bedroom. Yeah, nobody cares, I love that, okay, um, before I wrap this up, uh, do you have, like I'm gonna post a link to one of those YouTube videos that you were talking about? Do you have any other resources that you would think would be helpful for the listeners?

Speaker 2:

Well, I love my field of work. There's not a ton of us, but there are. If you look up somatic sex educators, I think that would be an amazing place to start, and there's most of us are doing virtual work with couples or groups to some of us. I have some friends in Canada that are doing like groups, group sessions and group sessions for couples, and so joining something like that could be an amazing way to feel much more connected to your partner, into your own integrity and like doing what you want to be doing and in the boundaries that you want to be doing it. And so, yeah, I would I really would recommend that someone find someone that studied the kind of stuff I studied, because it's life changing stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh my God, absolutely. I can see it being so helpful for people who are in this lifestyle hugely helpful, so I will definitely post all the links that I can in the show notes for today. Where can people learn more about you and your practice and everything like that? Where do you want people to find more information?

Speaker 2:

I have a website, haven space h? A v? E? N space coachingcom, and then that has a YouTube channel. It's the same haven space coaching, and an Instagram, haven space coachingcom, and then that has a YouTube channel it's the same Haven Space Coaching, and an Instagram Haven Space Coaching. So any of those avenues and I'm on LinkedIn. Sarah Perry, sse. Somatic Sex Educator.

Speaker 1:

And you have a podcast too. I forgot I listened to your podcast. Like you're out there just ruling the world. I fucking love it.

Speaker 2:

The podcast was a COVID project and it's been put on pause for now, but the episodes are still out there for people to listen to. I think there's like 65. They're all about different fetishes. Once in a while there's a couple of little things that are different, but in general, I would just randomly pick a fetish, do some research and record a podcast about it, so there's some fun stuff on there too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I listened to the cuckolding one. Very well done, excellent. I'll post a link to that in the show notes for today as well. Sarah, it's been absolutely fantastic having you on the show with me.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for joining me, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

That's going to be it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Make sure you go to venuscuckoldresscom. That's where you can book a private chat with me, and you can also join the Queens Quarters community and get all the amazing benefits, like the private podcast and the helpful cuck tier, where you can get key holding for the private Snapchat group, monthly private chats with me and weekly live hangouts and invites to special live events. Oh, and you can also submit a question or confession for the show. Just go to venuscuckledresscom and click on the link that says the podcast. Make sure you follow me on blue sky social. Yes, I said blue sky social. Fuck twitter. My handle there is at CuckoldressV. All right, that's it for today's show, you guys. We'll see you next time. Bye.