The Venus Cuckoldress Podcast
The Venus Cuckoldress Podcast
When Cuckolding Turns Dark: The Danger of Turning Fantasy Into Reality
Trigger Warning: This episode discusses suicide.
Venus delves into the rarely discussed emotional aftermath of cuckolding through an unflinchingly honest conversation with John, who shares his journey from fantasy to reality – and the mental health crisis that followed.
After 20+ years of marriage, John finally revealed his deepest desire to his wife, setting them on a path neither fully anticipated. While many discussions about cuckolding focus on the erotic thrill, John describes his first real experience with brutal candor: "Fear, nausea... genuinely, just what have I done? Why have I done this to myself? It was horrifying." The raw vulnerability as he recounts coming home and breaking down in tears provides crucial perspective for anyone considering this lifestyle.
What makes John's testimony particularly valuable is the paradoxical psychology he unveils. Despite experiencing severe depression that eventually led to suicidal thoughts, he never wanted to stop – and often desired to escalate their activities. "The most warped thing about all this is that at the absolute lowest points, I wanted to continue," he explains, illuminating how the emotional struggle itself becomes intertwined with the arousal. This emotional complexity extends to feelings of sexual irrelevance that many cuckolds face: "Once your wife gets a bull that's really good at fucking her, you realize that you're not sexually valid in the same way anymore."
Through communication with his wife and developing healthier boundaries, John eventually found balance. His story serves as both caution and guidance for curious couples, highlighting the crucial importance of mental health support when exploring intense kinks. "You don't know how you're going to feel until you do it," he warns, pushing back against the "cheerleading" common in online communities.
Cuckolding-Friendly Counselors and Therapists:
American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists
National Coalition for Sexual Freedoms - Kink Aware Professionals Directory
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Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2:And then the second time they met, they had sex for hours in our bed and other places and, honestly, fear nausea. I can actually feel it right now. Now I'm thinking about, I can feel some of those feelings coming back into me right now, cause I'm I'm almost reliving it. Yeah, fear, nausea, um, genuinely, just what have I done? Why have I done this to myself? Why would anyone do this to themselves?
Speaker 2:It was, if I'm, if I'm being completely honest, horrifying. I can't horrifying, I can't describe as anything else different to that. And you know, when I got home because I was at work when it happened I got home from work and we sort of got in bed together just to sort of talk to each other and I just cried for quite a while and it was ugly crying, I can tell you. Yeah, um, it was just not good. And at that point my wife was like, oh my god, this is like. This is, this is not, it's not right, we shouldn't be doing this. And I'm like no, it's okay, I'll get over it. You know, it's just the first time and I love you more than anything and it's just been a huge amount to process.
Speaker 1:Empowered woman who wants it all. Let's go. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, venus. Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 1:Today I have, I think, what is one of my most impactful stories that I've had on the show today. It is profound and I have thought a lot about this story since recording it, and I think a lot of you guys out there are going to be moved by this story, so I'm excited for you to listen to it, because so many guys out there are wondering about cuckolding and desiring it so much and scared to know what it might really be like and I've talked about it on the show being such a great thing and great for relationships and awesome, exciting, thrilling and fun and all that good stuff. This is the flip side. This is what happens when it does not feel good, when it is not very healthy for you, and so this story is fascinating to hear. I think you're really going to get a lot out of it. First, though, I do need to mention trigger warning for anybody listening to the show. There is the mention of suicide, so if you are sensitive to that, you may not want to listen to this episode.
Speaker 1:Today's show is a cautionary tale, but it's also a very good time to acknowledge that there is a great need for individual and couples therapy, and I know a lot of men out there get this knee-jerk reaction when it comes to therapy. They're like I don't need to go and get help, I'm not mentally anguished, there's nothing wrong with me, I don't need to fix anything, I can fix it myself. Okay, let me just tell you fucking change your mind about that shit, because therapy I've been to therapy many, many, many, many countless times in my life and I have gained so much from it. Not because necessarily because I was going through something really difficult there were times when it helped for that but what it does is it helps. Actually. You can learn skills to better analyze your own interior experience, but also get the skills that you need to be able to communicate those emotions, those feelings, those things that you're going through that are difficult to your partner. And, let's face it, a lot of guys just don't have those skills as not things that you are normally taught in life. So it's understandable that this is a struggle to be able to talk to your partner about these things that may be going on. So therapy is really really good for that. So go and learn the skills and it is so good for actually taking a good relationship and making it even better. It's good for improving your own set of skills so that you can thrive in life and it's actually making those skills even better. There's so much positive aspect to therapy and for everybody who I've spoken to that's ever been to therapy, it's been a really good, positive experience for them, where they've come out of it a better person. So it is really easy to get therapy.
Speaker 1:I'm going to put in the show notes for today, in the description notes for this episode, a link to sex positive therapists and counselors and a lot of these professionals provide services online so you don't actually have to go into an office. You can actually just do it online and have these sessions online. I would highly, highly recommend and it is very important, especially for a relationship like cuckolding, because there is so much work with the emotional and mental load that comes along with this, for sure with women, but especially for guys to be able to work through that angst and those conflicting feelings and the taboo nature of it and you might be questioning yourself and your self-esteem. There's so much work that goes along with that, with cuckolding specifically, self-esteem. There's so much work that goes along with that, with cuckolding specifically, that therapy is priceless for that. So please, please, consider it All. Right, let's jump into this episode today, right after this message from Joy Mode. Message from Joy Mode. I know all of you listening to this show really want to have better sex. Of course, the issue is that over-the-counter erection pills contain unregulated chemicals, ew. They suggest unsafe doses and include the risk of several other health problems. That's why I've partnered with my friends over at Joy Mode.
Speaker 1:Whether you're looking to spice up your intimate moments or increase your confidence in the bedroom and I know you are Joy Mode makes all natural, science-backed supplements dedicated to helping men perform better across their core functions their trademark product. The Sexual Performance Booster is every man's solution for increased blood flow, firmness, stamina and performance. It's like a pre-workout, but for sex. All ingredients have been assessed in peer-reviewed journals and all ingredients have been studied and researched in humans. That's important. It comes in a palm-sized packet, like your favorite electrolyte powder. Simply mix it with six to eight ounces of water 45 minutes before sexual activity and just watch the magic unfold, redefine your intimacy and go to tryjoymUS. That's 20% off and free shipping with the code VENUS at tryjoymodecom. Ingredients with integrity. That's Joy Mode Joining me on the show. Today. I have John who's going to share his story about what it's actually like to be a cuck. John, welcome to the show. Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited for you to share your story because I've talked to a lot of people over the years. I've talked to a lot of guys over the years about cuckolding and I've seen so much shit and I'm sure you have too online about what cuckolding is like and all of the advice that's given out there and the sometimes rose colored glasses that people are looking at cuckolding through. And I'm guilty sometimes because I'm just like, oh, it's so wonderful, it's lovely, it's like incredible, it's blah blah, blah blah. But let's face it, it's not fucking easy. So I'm excited to have you on the show and share what it's actually been like for you. So, uh, you're married, right?
Speaker 2:yes, okay, yeah, we've been married for 20 plus years married um and together just short of 30.
Speaker 1:oh, wow, um, and so were you guys. Was that your first relationship?
Speaker 2:First, yeah, first serious relationship. Little teenage stuff before that, but yeah, certainly first proper relationship, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:And so has cuckolding always been something that you were interested in for your adult life, or like does this go way back or is this fairly recent?
Speaker 2:I would say for me, probably in my early 20s I came across back in the dark, dark days of all the weird like file streaming sites that were like Kazaa and all those weird things. I don't if anyone's old enough to remember that, like I am, but yeah, I first came across things like Cocoa Porn back then and it sort of piqued my interest but I didn't really think it was something that was ever going to happen to me and then over time I kind of started to have fantasies about it and it grew stronger and stronger over time and it it was probably not until what I know, it was not until I was 39 that I actually acted upon it in some way by confessing how I felt to my wife okay.
Speaker 1:So you realized at some point that this is like a really strong desire that you had and you thought you would bring it up with her. Okay, fuck, how did that go? And I'm assuming that your wife was fairly vanilla, or did she have some kinky desires too?
Speaker 2:um, I would say, for the first 20 years of our relationship it was a very vanilla relationship, and after that, um, particularly as we got towards the end of our 30s, things sort of became less vanilla. And then we experimented with, I would say, light to medium femdom. Um, I'm a switch, naturally, although not really anymore, but she's definitely not a switch and she's definitely not a sub so, and so it was through playing with that I actually felt able to be vulnerable enough to tell her about something that was, for me, probably the deepest, darkest, buried secret that I had. Yeah, and so it was through mainly, I think, through chastity play mainly, um, that it came to it and I just blurted it out one day when we were in bed. Oh no, how did that go?
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, she's a, she's an open-minded lady and she's, uh, pretty calm and and very level-headed. So she was kind of like, okay. Then, um, I was not expecting that, and like, yeah, because what else do you say at that moment? It's like, yeah, I know, um, it's kind of out there, but but that that's just how I feel, something I've always wanted to experience. It took quite a while after that, um, before we actually moved on and and and really did anything meaningful, probably a couple years before we actually started speaking to other people, and then probably at least a couple of years after that before we really did anything concrete.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this was a slow burn idea that you guys were playing with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because ultimately we'd been together a very long time at that point already and it's, you know, if this goes wrong, it's marriage ending potentially. And you know many marriages do end because it goes wrong and obviously some don't. But yeah, so it's an enormous risk and you have to weigh up, you know, is it worth the risk for a hard-on? Essentially, yeah, you know, I mean, don't you? It's like, how much are you willing to risk, um, just to get kicks?
Speaker 1:and so it took us a while to sort of unpack that so, just going back to when you brought it up to her, you said you just blurted it out in the bedroom. Do you happen to remember the words that you used or the phrasing that you used? I'm just curious. I'm just dying to know how guys actually do this to bring it up.
Speaker 2:Honestly, probably not the exact words, but we were doing a little bit of dirty talk around around the, the, the chastity play that we were doing, and you know me sort of being in subspace, and I just kind of I just said it, you know, I just know it. Now that you've got me in chastity you need to cook me, as's something along those lines. Exact words can't remember and she was like.
Speaker 2:You know what that was kind of, because obviously I mean like, because of like all the the maga stuff and all the rest of it cooks become a bit of a mainstream term, even if people aren't really like really aware of what cook holding is. You know, it's become a like a mainstream word. That's kind of gone across the world now and people know what a cook is, even if they don't really know what cook holding is and what it's about properly. So she understood what it was, but she was still a bit like okay then, and what is that going to look like?
Speaker 1:as you can imagine, yeah, I'm sure her mind was reeling because that's a big, big step. No-transcript the weight why did it take you so long to bring it up to her?
Speaker 2:Ah well, I mean probably mostly shame, if I'm honest um, social conditioning, telling you you're not supposed to feel this way. You know you're not supposed to desire this. It's like, I think that you know. I think we all know that those of us that are into into being cooked all know that that social conditioning and shame are also part of the attraction. Um, it's wrong, it's very wrong, very, very wrong. You shouldn't be doing this. I want to do this. That is that that is inside us to a degree. Um, and you know it's not. I don't view it as wrong. I need to. I think I need to be that clear, but it's that thing. Society views it as abnormal, taboo, wrong, and so, um, and it's that thing. If you say anything, does your partner suddenly go. Oh my god, you absolute freak. Get out of my bedroom, get out of my house, you. And so it's shame and fear and all those kind of emotions that go along with what this kink is.
Speaker 1:Which is so mind-blowing to me and to many other women who I've spoken to about this, because for me, when I met my first cuck boyfriend, it was the talking about the fantasies. It was so fun and everything was so exciting and there was nothing but positivity. For me there was nothing but fun and this is a sexy and it's exciting. And it that road with him that I had no idea what was going on and that kind of turmoil in his inner experience because he did not have. He just didn't want to or could not express that to me.
Speaker 1:So I had no idea that he was, I don't want to say fighting these demons, but going through this moral tug of war that you're talking about, where social conditioning tells him like you shouldn't, this is terribly wrong, Like there's something wrong with you If you want this like. This is not healthy, this is not right, this is this says a lot about you and that's not good and blah, blah, blah. I had no idea that that was going on. Did you ever talk to your wife about that? When you did blurt it out to her, Did you say, like this has been really hard for me to accept this part of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we've had those conversations and she's aware that it was going on. She's aware now that it was going on in my head for a long time and I think that is a really good way of staying in like that that sort of moral tug of war. You know, you do sort of think, is there something wrong with me? And I think what people you know, if you really think about it, the one person in your life that you don't want to think there's something wrong with you is the person that's closest to you, the person that you love and who loves you. And is the person that's closest to you, the person that you love and who loves you. And the idea of making them repulsed by you is, you know, it's a really frightening idea. So it's not just the moral to go, it's also that risk.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think we've had those conversations and she knows that I find it difficult. You know I'm very open. Certainly now I'm very open about how I feel, and so I don't think she'll end up listening to this podcast because, um, some of the things do upset her. There's some of the ways I feel sometimes it upsets her and she doesn't want, she doesn't want. It's not, she doesn't want to know, she she's, she helps me deal with it, but she doesn't like to hear about it. You know being spoken out loud and yeah, um, so I'm very open.
Speaker 1:This is so important to talk about, though, because for especially for, like, the women who are part of this fantasy, part of this world, with you how confusing it is for us to see you so desire this so strongly, so much, and yet also hate yourself, for it is such a bizarre thing, like I just it's very confusing for us. It was very, very confusing for me and for a lot of women who go through it. So let's talk about it. What you you brought it up to her. You said you took years to talking about it, which is great. Was that just dirty talk? Or were you guys actually talking through, like, the emotions of like what is what you expect these experiences to be? Or was there no expectation of actually doing this in real life?
Speaker 2:it was just talking I think initially I never believed it would really happen. Um, I think, initially, I think it's one of those things I thought. Even I thought it was so out there that my partner would be like, yeah, no, and so we did, we did, we did play with it and dirty talk with it in the bedroom and things like that. But we never not for the first three talk with it in the bedroom and things like that, but we never not for the first three, four, five, six months really seriously talk about it. And then, I think, once my partner and I realized that it it wasn't going away, it wasn't just something that we were going to talk about, in fact, actually, the dirty talk was getting dirtier and the urge was getting stronger, not weaker, through playing with it. That's when we really started to talk about it seriously. I was like, okay, you know what would it look like.
Speaker 2:And my partner I think, like a lot of women will identify this they've gone through the journey to being a hot wife or a cuckoldress or whatever you want to call it. I've gone through that sort of initial stage where I go, no, no, you know, come on no. And you're like, well, no, really though. And so you go through that sort of that time where you talk about it, but every time you really talk it's like yeah, but it's a bad idea really, isn't it? And then eventually it becomes yeah, but. And then eventually it becomes well, what would it look like and what would we do?
Speaker 2:And so in the end we decided to try playing online. So we met people through Reddit and you know, we met guys through Reddit who would talk to her, usually through kick. But, yeah, and to be honest, as I've mentioned reddit, reddit has been a big part of this for me. Once I realized, once we started talking, I actually found subreddits on reddit that I'd never really been on reddit before.
Speaker 2:And then this massive world opened up and I was like, oh my god, people are out there doing this for real. It's not just something crazy that's on porn hub, you know, it's not just something crazy that's on Pornhub, it's not just something that I've read about or thought about. There are real people out there doing this. So, yeah, we played with people online. And then, from playing with people online, we sort of talked about maybe we really do it, and we got very, very, very, very, very close. And then we didn't do it and we had a couple of close calls and then we didn't do it, and we had a couple of close calls and then eventually someone did end up meeting with my wife and we did it for the first time.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me what that was like, because I'm just imagining what it was for. Throughout that whole time span was like for you to go into it thinking this is just fun, this is never actually going to happen. I'm just basically getting lots of boner wank sessions and this is great, it's all fun. It's all fun and games, it's all good To slowly starting to realize like, oh, actually we might do this. And then, like you said, you had some people, some close calls where you it almost happened and then it actually did.
Speaker 1:Please, john, tell me what that was like for you internally, in your emotional atmosphere. Like, cause I don't know what this is like for guys. I can only tell, like I can only share what is like from the woman's experience, from my perspective, I have no idea. I know it's angsty, I know there's all sorts of uncomfortable feelings that that happen. But what, what is it really like for all the guys out there who are like, oh, you know, is this, you know, is this a real thing? Like, does it sideways? Who like is it really great? Is it terrible? What is it like?
Speaker 2:so the first person she ever met didn't want me to be present, um, so she did it alone the first few times. And the first time they met it was like a social but with um, they ended up spending some time together in his car and she gave him head and stuff like that, but they, um, they ended up spending some time together in his car and she gave him head and stuff like that, but they never. They didn't actually have sex the first time they met um, and it wasn't really real. That first time it didn't feel real. Even even though that they'd done stuff, it just still didn't feel quite real and it was all just a little bit ethereal. And then, the second time they met, they had sex for hours in our bed and other places and, honestly, fear nausea. I can actually feel it right now. Now I'm thinking about, I can feel some of those feelings coming back into me right now because I'm almost reliving it. Uh, yeah, fear nausea, um, genuinely, just what have I done? Why have I done this to myself? Why would anyone do this to themselves? It was, if I'm, if I'm being completely honest, horrifying. I can't describe as anything else different to that.
Speaker 2:And, um, you know, when I got home because I was at work when it happened I got home from work and we sort of got in bed together just to try to talk to each other and I just cried um for quite a while, um, and it was ugly crying, I can tell you. Um, it was just not good and that kind of. At that point my wife was like, oh, my god, this is like, this is, this is not, it's not right, we shouldn't be doing this. And I'm like, no, it's okay, I'll get over it. You know, it's just the first time and, um, you know, I love you more than anything and it's just been a huge amount to process.
Speaker 2:And so she met him a couple more times and in the end, I think the fairest way to put it is that we decided that, even though he's a really good fit for her, it wasn't working for us, because it did get better. Each time they met I was less upset and able to process it less, but I say, process it more even. But it still wasn't right and I was like I just really think I need to be there and he doesn't want me to be there. And so she didn't see him again and then she saw someone else with me there who was nowhere near as good as the guy that wouldn't let me be there for her, but it. It was just a completely different experience, and it always is. When I'm there, I don't know why, I'm just involved and I just feel fine and when I'm not there it's so much worse, even though I don't actually do anything when I'm there.
Speaker 2:You know I'll sit in the corner and I really do do the speak when spoken to you know, move.
Speaker 2:when told to move, I just sit in the corner quietly and let them do it in the ubiquitous chair. Obviously, um, the cup chair, um, but yeah, I'll sit there and just let them get it in the ubiquitous chair. Obviously, the cup chair. But yeah, I'll sit there and just let them get on with it and I just enjoy watching it and I don't even feel very strong emotions. But when I'm not there, even now, after a few years of doing this, the emotions are still very strong that is fascinating to me.
Speaker 1:I wonder what it is that just I guess I don't know there's something about. Have you tried to dissect that, to figure out what it is about that? That is so much more calming about you being there than not.
Speaker 2:I think the only thing that I can really put it down to mainly is that I think your imagination is much more powerful than than than you realize, and it's like I kind of put you if you've ever watched a film, um, that's been uh, converted from a book and you've read the book and the film's just like disappointing and weak and just not the same, it's because your imagination, because you can't see what's in the book, it's just words. Your imagination has to make it real and your imagination is more powerful than your eyes. I do believe that it sounds a little bit sort of profound, but I do believe there's an element of that to it, because the not knowing is worse than the knowing.
Speaker 2:Right, wow, so you were talking about how you said, nausea was one of the feelings that you felt in those times when you weren't there, did it at all throughout that whole experience when she was out with him, was it still a turn on or was it just completely awful, just awful?
Speaker 2:no, it was never a turn on, it was. I'm laughing now, which is like it's not really funny, is it? But it is funny, but it isn't. Um, you know, and it was pretty awful. And even now, when, when she meets without me there, which is most of the time, I don't really get anything out of it sexually.
Speaker 1:Really, but I'm surprised by this.
Speaker 2:I know, I know. But when she comes home and we're back together, that's when I get something out of it. That's when you know when she'll talk to me about what's happened and you know we reclaim and all the rest of it about what's happened, and you know we reclaim and all the rest of it. That's the bit that I really enjoy, and the bit leading up to as well. You know if we're having sex, if we're in the bedroom and talking about stuff. You know the talking about what's going to happen, the fact that you might be meeting the next day or whatever. That bit is really exciting and fun.
Speaker 2:The actual meet itself, if I'm not there, is just even now. It's like I don't feel like I did in the early days, but even now I still just feel a bit. You know, I really, oh, I don't enjoy this. You know why do I do it. You know it's even now. Um, and yeah, I, I know that that that's probably more unique to me than some people. I know that there will be other people like me everybody's different, aren't they?
Speaker 2:but for me yeah, my enjoyment comes through her, and if she's not there I'm not getting the enjoyment yeah because, um, sorry, um, because essentially, I think, at the center of all this for me is it always has been and it still is about her. Um, I, I don't. I don't think I'm a cook, I think I'm her cook. That, that's really how it is for me. I don't think about being cooked by other people. The idea of being cooked by someone else is ridiculous to me. Um, it's her, her cooking me because she's everything.
Speaker 1:That's how I can describe it as okay. Yeah, because I was gonna ask like that first time where you felt so terrible, did you want to be like? I never want to do this again.
Speaker 2:No, wow, it's warped, isn't it? It's just warped. I can't even explain it. The most warped thing about all this is that at the absolute lowest points, even at the worst ebbs, when I felt really bad, I wanted to continue and often wanted to escalate it.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, we need to dive into this, okay. So so tell, like explain to the listeners what that means, because you're saying that at some point things took a turn for the shits like it was just not not good, right yeah, about.
Speaker 2:I would say about a year and a half into doing it, um, I started to suffer from, I would call it, mild depression to moderate depression, and it was definitely triggered by the cooking um and the way I felt. Um, I think the the genuine cause of it was just an enormous crash of my self-esteem, um, and it was at that because I think it was that point I realized that, you know, it wasn't really a game anymore for me, as much as it was starting to become who I was sexually, um, it was starting to become my sexual identity, um. So I've always I've always been kinky. I've always liked lots of different things.
Speaker 2:I've been into lots of different things and slowly but surely, over the course of about a year and a half, I went from being interested in lots of kinks to only being interested in one, and it was getting to the point where I was finding it hard to become erect without thinking about being cooked and all sorts of things like which. I'm sure absolutely tons of cooks have been through that one. I think a lot of us get to that point, and so it was that point my self-esteem really started to dive and that mild to moderate depression over the course of about two to three months, became quite severe depression and then, really I would say for a period of three months, I became suicidal, actually fully suicidal. So a good day would be me thinking about suicide less than 10 times.
Speaker 1:Oh wow.
Speaker 2:And then I started to get better and I started to become less depressed and I would say the depression lasted proper depression lasted for probably about nine months, like three months, either side of the suicidal thoughts. And now I would say that I'm occasionally depressed but don't have depression. I think is the right way to put it. So occasionally I have depressed thoughts, usually when my wife's meeting. That's when I'm really susceptible to it. But yeah, I've learned how to contain it. I've learned what caused it to a point I really let it in. I let it in.
Speaker 2:I know it sounds like a weird thing that you can let depression in, but once it started I allowed those thoughts to fester and really focused on them and that just turned it into this really dark, dark place where the depression stopped being about cuckolding and self-esteem and the depression started to be about being depressed. And I don't know if anyone's ever been to that point. But when you are depressed because you're depressed, that's a cycle that's hard to break and it's a dark one and you feel like there's no way out because you're not depressed about what you were depressed about in the first place anymore, you're just depressed because you're depressed. So yeah, it was pretty rough. It was quite tough and so, yeah, that that's my story and I'd say I've been well now for some time, uh, which is great, and but, like we were saying, even at the really really bad point, even when I was feeling suicidal, I didn't want to stop and would actually often try to escalate things.
Speaker 1:With the cuckolding, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:It's warped isn't it. It's actually warped.
Speaker 1:Wow, I'm so glad that you're sharing your story. What kind of resources did you have? And I know mental health, especially for men, when it comes to resources, just sucks here in North America. For men, when it comes to resources, just sucks here in north america. Um, there's just not a lot available. What were you able to draw on? I'm assuming um medical care, but also um therapy and stuff like that. Did you read? Did you use any of those resources?
Speaker 2:no, um, uh, it would be complicated to explain. It's a subject on its own to explain why not. But I, uh, where I live, our, our solution to depression would be to give me some some medication, and a lot of those medications, in my opinion, are worse than the depression. That's my feeling, and I might be talking complete rubbish. I'm sure there are medical professionals throwing their laptops at the wall while they listen to me say this, but that's just how I feel and I didn't want to take medication and the chances of me getting actual good therapy where I live is I would rank as slim to none. Okay, so that's my opinion.
Speaker 2:So I toughed it out. I was honest with my wife. You know I couldn't talk to her in daylight about it, um, so on a night time, in bed, you know we'd go to bed, like you do, as a couple cuddle up together, or maybe not cuddle up together and then there's time went on, no cuddling and I became incredibly cold and distant. I couldn't, couldn't bring myself. I had no feelings for her or for me. It's weird how depression gets you like that. It's not that you don't love your partner, it's that you're not capable of loving anyone or anything.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, we'd lay in bed and in the dark, I could tell her how I felt and you know, the day that I told her that I'd been suicidal for quite some time was probably the hardest thing I've ever to do. It's harder than being cooked way harder. Um, telling another human being that that you are not only close to suicide, but I've been close to suicide for some time and have thought seriously about how you would do it. Um, and truthfully, I think the only thing that held me back was the thought of what it would do to my parents, who were elderly, and how they just wouldn't understand and how it would hurt them, and I think that probably held me back from the brink. But, yeah, so I didn't seek mental health professional help. I had my partner and that was it, and she was, to be honest, incredibly understanding. But also she found it incredibly difficult because I mean, when all is said and done, you're watching your partner self-destruct.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which has got to be tough for anyone.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I can't even imagine. And you said throughout all of it you wanted to continue with the cuckolding thing and ramp it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, Okay. So for a lot of people listening that's going to sound like just really I don't want to say unhealthy, but potentially damaging to not take a break with the cuckolding part during that really horrendous time of your life. If you could go back, would you do things differently?
Speaker 2:That's a very difficult question to answer. The rational part of me says, of course we should have done things differently. The more emotional side of me says that I think once I was on the path to the severe depression, it wouldn't have made much difference if you'd stopped. Okay, because once I was in the midst of the deep depression, I wasn't depressed about cook holding or being a cook, or even about self-esteem. It was just about I don't know how to describe it. It sounds weird, even when I say it myself, having experienced.
Speaker 2:But everything becomes futile. What's the point in getting better? You know you. Why would you get better? There's no point. Everything is just dark, and everything that anyone says to you, no matter who they are and what it is, you see the worst in it and that it's just hard to describe, and yeah so. But I actually don't think it would have made that much difference. There are things that probably would have helped, but in truth I would have just felt guilty for denying my wife what she was enjoying, and that would have added to my feelings of low esteem, and I think that would have depressed me further low esteem and I think that I think that would have depressed me further.
Speaker 1:So at some point you said it took what? Nine months until you felt like you were back on the road to recovery after that.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, roughly nine months.
Speaker 1:So did you like were there some changes to be made during that time to make sure that you don't slip back into that negative thought pathway, or did you just sort of just be like, all right, let's do this, I feel better, let's do this more.
Speaker 2:Are you familiar with the musical the Book of Mormon?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay, so there's a song in that in that called turn it off like a light bulb, and it's basically about repressing your homosexuality. Um, the character's homosexual, but he's a mormon and he's not supposed to be, so he turns it off like a light bulb and what it's a bit of a it's a poor analogy, I suppose, but effectively I've learned that if I let the depressive thoughts in, I become depressed. If I notice I'm starting to feel that way, I just shut it off. I just shut it off in my head. I'm like, no, you're not thinking about that and that really helps.
Speaker 2:Um, and I, I know that that goes against much of the mental health advice that people are given, but I think it actually plays into something, uh, that probably people don't practice enough, which is stoicism, and I was not stoic at all and that's why I collapsed. If I'd have been stoic and and actually when these depressive thoughts they're starting, gone, stop thinking like that, there's no need to think like that, put it away I probably would never have become depressed. And I know a lot of people again are probably going to be ripping their headphones off and stamping on them listening to me say that, but it's certainly true for me that I can control it. But if I let it in it kind of spirals, I don't know, I don't know how to. It's like I don't know how to describe it adequately it's like if you roll a ball downhill, it gets faster and faster and faster. So don't roll the ball down the hill.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, cause you can't control it once it starts it's like, yeah, exactly okay, this is fascinating to me, um, because since then, your, your wife is, um, she's still sleeping with other guys, right? Does she have like a regular bowl that she sees she has a regular?
Speaker 2:bowl that she sees. She has a regular bull that she sees.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, and you said you're not always there when she sees him.
Speaker 2:I'm occasionally present, but I'm never in the room and most of the time they either meet away from the house or they meet at the house when I'm not here.
Speaker 1:So they only tend to meet at the house with me in if there's basically, it's just not practical to do it another way, and do you feel like you're the? The cuckolding dynamic in your relationship is fulfilling for you and brings you joy and is helping your relationship now?
Speaker 2:Yeah um, um, good question. Um, I would say that, um, it can be fulfilling. I think my partner gets a lot out of this particular bull. It's not just sex, they are definitely more friend, with benefits. Um, so, you know, they go on dates, they stay overnight with each other. Um, they are friends, they have similar interests, they make each other laugh, so there is much more to it than just sex. But I would say also, the sex is about 80 of it, so it is still mainly a sexual relationship and so she gets a lot out of it and he's really good at sex.
Speaker 2:For her, so, you know, it's very fulfilling for her, it's a real outlet and actually, you know, when I was ill, you know that outlet really helped her to be able to go away and get away from the depression and the sadness and to go on and meet with someone who was there with her and just expressing joy around her. That that was really great for her and it remains that way. And so, yeah, um, it it's, it's a benefit for our relationship in that sense that she's happier and more relaxed and more fulfilled. Um, is it fulfilling? He's happier and more relaxed and more fulfilled. Is it fulfilling? It's not as fulfilling, as if he was a more stereotypical bull, as you would imagine from you know. I suppose that well, yeah, the stereotype.
Speaker 1:That's why it's called a stereotype, isn't it?
Speaker 2:But you know, it would be better if it was more involved with me. It would be better. I, I would like to be their cook and I'm not their cook. I'm her cook and really it's more. It's more hot wifing than cook holding because it's although it's done from a cook, all perspective at home, it's really more that she's more doing the hot wire thing. It's more stag, it's more I don't know how to describe it, but it's definitely not.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like a cook, um, like I want to the mind game is not there, as much as you not fully okay exactly, and I think that for us, what we're trying to find is that balance where, um, we've sort of reintroduced a very gentle femdom in the house, so it would be like what you would call gentle um female led, so it's not like 24 seven lifestyle. But you know, basically I'm expected to treat my wife with respect and love at all times, you know, and if I don't, then there are consequences to that. And you know she doesn't make all the decisions, she doesn't do all the stuff, she doesn't control me. I don't have to ask permission for things, but she gets a veto. If she decides that she's not happy with it, she can just say no, I don't think we're going to do that and we've introduced some of those things right and that that really has helped because it makes me feel, um I don't know more valid in the relationship.
Speaker 2:I think the hardest thing to describe to her is that, as a cook, um, the thing you learn very quickly once your wife gets a a bowl that's really good at fucking her um, you realize that you're not sexually valid in the same way anymore. You know, once upon a time I was the center of my wife's sexual world and that's very much not the case. Now. You know she has more sex with her ball than she does with me and that sex is better. Um, you know, the usual stereotype is why he is bigger downstairs than I am, you know, and that does have an effect. She does prefer size and yeah, um. So, um, you realize you're not sexually valid in the same ways that you used to be, and for me I still need to be valid, and I can't do that through fucking her, so I need to be valid in other ways, but still, sexually. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yes, and I've heard this, I've seen this struggle, I've heard this struggle. I felt this struggle from so many guys before. Does that make sense? Grieving process that you go through when you realize that you're not everything that your wife was wanting from you and it seems like to me very ego crushing. For a lot of guys they're just like. This is really damaging to my self identity, knowing that I'm not what she needs and in the bedroom department. I don't know, I don't know why I have such a hard time understanding that. I get it. It's obviously such a thing that guys feel this way, but I just don't understand it and this is probably why so many guys you see so many questions out there where guys are like well, how can your wife not lose respect for you over time if you can't give her what she needs in bed?
Speaker 1:It's like what I guess I think for a lot of women, myself included. We look at cuckolding relationships through the lens of an abundance mindset, where you're like what you're actually giving her is variety, is experiences, is more of what she already was happy with, and that's the real gift there, whereas like it's very much. What's the other side of it? Abundance, a scarcity mindset that guys have where they're like well, I'm not enough, I am clearly not good enough, I'm not big enough, I can't give her this kind of orgasm, I can't give her every kind of orgasm, I can't give her all the feels, I can't be all of that for her. Therefore, that means something about me and my sense of self and that is the ego crushing part.
Speaker 1:And it's hard for me to understand that part because that's not how I see it and that's not how a lot of women I've spoken to have seen it no-transcript wrong with them or it's doomed. And so I guess, if you're fed that storyline your whole life and that's what you're used to and everything like that understanding anything outside of that little box is probably wild, wild. So I I understand that, but it's. It is like a grieving process that guys go through where they're like I'm no longer everything for her sexually. This is like a very profound moment where guys are just, you know they have to work through that and how do you, how do you get over that? I don't know, maybe it is traumatizing. Was it traumatizing for you?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean and you're exactly right to say it's like grief. It is grief, I mean if, if it's like if a if a family member dies and you grieve and then you feel, oh, I didn't spend enough time with them, I could have gone to see them, I could have done this for them. Now they're gone, then your self-esteem drops because you know you've been, you feel like you've let them down, you feel guilty, you feel bad and then that can make the grief worse and that's when people can end up from that point and end up being depressed and all the rest of it. That is exactly the same. It's exactly the same for what I went through.
Speaker 2:I grieved for my loss of manhood and I know that is really really, really stupid, but also I still did. I knew it was stupid, I knew it was wrong to feel that way, I knew I knew I shouldn't be feeling so bad about myself because you know, at the end of the day, my wife has the same mindset as you, so she's got the abundance mindset and and you know, she does still enjoy having sex with me and she does still want to have sex with me and, to be honest, um, most of the kinky stuff we're doing, most of the dirty talk and all that stuff. That's for my benefit. Um, she'd be more than happy just to have vanilla sex with me. Still, um, and, and so I know it's my I'll call it my problem, even though problem is not really the right word. It's my problem, it's my issue. I'm the one that feels this way and I totally respect what you say is. It's's 100% grief, and that is what I went through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's amazing to me. Okay, you said something on Reddit. I went through all of your posts and there was a bunch of things that you wrote about cuckolding fantasy versus reality. That was the original post and you had many comments on there, but one thing was so fascinating to me. This one really stuck out. You said I don't think this kink would turn me on if it wasn't hard for me, though you said it works less well for her that I struggle. And you said it's always a balance for us where possible.
Speaker 1:And I've heard this before about the taboo part of cuckolding, where it wouldn't be as fun and enjoyable if it wasn't taboo, if it wasn't something that you're not supposed to do. But I found it interesting that you said that it's the struggle that pulls you in, and I'm so confused by this. Is this like emotional masochism? Is this where you're like you purposely want to struggle and you want to go experience the unpleasantness of the angst and the feelings of shame and everything? Because, because ultimately, it does turn you on? Is this really how it works in your mind?
Speaker 2:Kind of yeah, I mean, I think it would be akin to. It's like when you go on a giant roller coaster, right, and for starters you know you shouldn't be going at 70 miles an hour in the open, at 400 feet, that's not natural. And as you get to the top of the hill on a roller coaster, your heart's in your mouth and your mouth goes dry and you're like, oh my god. And as you start to go the other side, the first feeling you get is I won't go as far as terror, but it's fear. And it's get is I won't go as far as terror, but it's fear, and it's like adrenaline and all these things. And then as you start going on, you feel the speed. Suddenly that becomes pleasure.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so as human beings, we seek out things that scare us. For starters, we just do it. Even the most risk averse people in some way find things that throw into them. So. So I think there's an element of that to it. Things that scare you are also something that we seek to enjoy. It's like people watching horror films to be scared. Why would you watch something that's horrible and scary? But we do, and I think with Cuckold in it.
Speaker 2:It's that struggle, that sort of angst, that fear, all of that is what makes it compulsive, and it is compulsive. I would say it's probably addictive. There is nothing in my life that I am so compelled to do as this, nothing. I mean, I'm in the fortunate position that the nest is empty, the kids have flown, they have their own lives, it's me and my wife together, and so, um, we, we have the freedom to explore and do things for ourselves now. But, yeah, there's nothing in life. No, no interest has consumed me like this. You know, no hobby, um, no sexual, uh, king, nothing. And and it it why I would say it's like an addiction.
Speaker 2:Is that the last hit? Well, that was great, but the next one to feel the same, you have to go further. Right for it to, because the things I think back now, the things that like used to drive me wild when we first started, before we didn't talk to anybody. I look like back at that now. Wow, that was pretty tame. And I think about would that stimulate me now? No, right, because you know, like, just the idea of a kiss in someone would, would send me up the wall, and I mean I, I've seen and had described to me things that go way beyond that. Now you know, and it's like, um, so yeah, it becomes, it's one of those things that the more you, more you do it, the more you to do it, the harder you need to go, and the struggle is part of it. Yeah, the struggle is definitely part of it. Feeling the emotional struggle, well, I mean, it's the angst, isn't it? You know, the cook angst everybody talks about and it's real.
Speaker 1:I can just imagine, though, how difficult this kind of relationship is for your partner, though, like she, I just how confusing this is for women, Because we don't want to harm our partner, we don't want to cause distress, we don't. I mean. It's not only that you, you know you don't want to hurt your partner, but it's a dangerous situation for women to be in too. What if you, you know your husband really wants you to cuck him, and the first time he can't handle the emotion of it and he flips out and hits you like? This could be dangerous for us, but it's just so confusing for us to understand that you still, you want, still, want this, you desire this so much and, uh, you know, you know the ramping up of it, and yet it feels like it can be so damaging. At the same time, it must be so confusing as a woman to be in that kind of scenario.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean certainly. I mean it's easy for me to say there was never any risk that I would have become violent towards my partner. I was too busy wallowing in self-pity for that, I think. But I think that the thing about it hurting me for her that being really difficult, that is really true.
Speaker 2:And of all the things to do with cooking, that has been the thing that has been hardest for her and she really dislikes that. And you know it's been traumatising for her. You know she suffered with me when I was ill. You know it's been traumatizing for her. You know she suffered with me when I was ill. You know, absolutely no doubt, and I could see that. And, of course, when you can see your partner suffering because of you, you become more depressed. Yeah, you know, because, oh my God, I'm such a bad person. Even my depression is hurting other people. You know. Yeah, so yeah, it was really difficult for her, really difficult, and still is. You know, when she sees that it hurts me.
Speaker 2:And you know we still have times when things are hard. You know, even though things are so, so, so, so much better, sometimes we have times where we have to talk it out because it's become difficult. Yeah, I don't know if that will ever go away. I mean, I'm much more. I am at peace with myself. I am like genuinely at peace with it. Now I don't struggle with it anymore. I still wouldn't want anyone in my real life to know what we do. You know, friends and family do not know what we do, and I would never want that because I've still got too much social conditioning for that too, much social conditioning for that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, um, I've accepted who I am and I'm comfortable with it, and I think I've I've still got a way to go with accepting. Um, it's still difficult sometimes to accept that my partner loves me and wants me, and I think at the heart of that is that when there's this other person and they like the other person, they like to talk to them, they like to do things with them, and then this other person is so much better at sex with them as well, there is always that thing you're going, well, they should really just be with them right, yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1:That's what so many people don't understand about cuckolding. They're like, well, why would? Why would she still? And that's why a lot of cucks doubt their self-worth. They're like, well, why would she still want me?
Speaker 2:I'm not relevant anymore, you know yeah, absolutely, and and that is it. It's that, it's that lack of relevance. That's what's damaging, I think, because you do feel irrelevant, you do feel redundant and in some ways you are, you know, sexually, you know you're not. It is true that you know to to a degree. Yeah, your partner does want the other person more when it comes to sex, if they're doing it right, which you know a current bold does wow, okay.
Speaker 1:So on reddit, there is this big community there for about cuckolding and it's fascinating to read a lot of the comments that are on there. There's some really good comments, very insightful comments. There's some really shitty advice that I've come across on there, some really crazy advice, but lots of people wondering what cuckolding is really like. Let's face it, there's a ton of guys out there fantasizing about this. That's what the research has shown. Men are fantasizing about this way more than women are and way more often, and so, um, you know lots of different stories about that. What are you hoping that people take away? Uh, most about this? About you sharing your story on the show today. What are you hoping that people are going to take away from this?
Speaker 2:I think if there's one thing that sort of scares me, it's that people go on things like reddit on on. I mean, one particular one that I look at a lot is cookhold psychology. And they go on reddit and they see these posts and it's clear to me that a lot of them just aren't based in reality. Like probably 90 percent of the posts on reddit about cookholding are probably from people who've never actually done it would be my guess, and I think you know it's like cheerleading. It really is. It's like give me a c, give me a u, give me a c, give me a k, go cook, you know. And, like you know, people will be going oh, you know, we've talked about it and we're thinking about it, but I'm not sure. And you just get like 50 comments going do it, do it, you know. And it's like, well, whoa, slow down. And so I think for me, I think it's important that people realize that there's a dark side to it. Uh, it's not, you know. And and you don't know how you're going to feel till you do it, you really don't. No one can know, no one can know.
Speaker 2:And and I also want to say that there have been some really positive moments from cooking and some real highs. You know we've talked a lot about the downsides today. There are some great bits to it, really great bits. Watching the sexual confidence in my wife, watching how her own body image has changed, stuff like that has just just been amazing, like the best thing ever. But there is this other side to it and I think that people there's just too many people on the internet trying to convince you to go for it and I want people to really see that that like the reality of it is, it could be bad and not just crying next to your wife while she's having sex. Bad, but actually could take you to a place that you don't really realize you're going to go and actually that place can be quite dark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well said, absolutely All right, we are out of time for the show today. John, I'm just, I'm so happy that you've come to to share your story and I'm, like, I'm very proud of you for coming on the show and sharing your story, because I know that a lot of people are would be nervous to do such a thing, but I I really appreciate your openness and your honesty about this side of cuckolding. So thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 2:No problem. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:That's going to be it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Make sure you go to venuscuckoldresscom. That's where you can book a private chat with me, and you can also join the Queens Quarters community and get all the amazing benefits, like the private podcast and the helpful cuck tier, where you can get key holding for the private Snapchat group, monthly private chats with me and weekly live hangouts and invites to special live events. Oh, and you can also submit a question or confession for the show. Just go to venuscuckledresscom and click on the link that says the podcast. Make sure you follow me on Blue Sky Social. Yes, I said Blue Sky Social. Fuck Twitter. My handle there is at CuckoldressV. All right, that's it for today's show, you guys, we'll see you next time.