The Venus Cuckoldress Podcast
The Venus Cuckoldress Podcast
Unleashing the Primal Bull; The Mind-blowing Intersection of BDSM and Cuckolding
Venus explores the mind-blowing intersection between BDSM, kink, and cuckolding with Victor, a self-described "primal" individual who brings a unique perspective to the bull role.
• Victor shares his journey from suppressing his primal nature to embracing it through kink and BDSM
• Understanding the psychological aspects of cuckolding goes deeper than just physical pleasure
• The "primal" energy described as controlled, disciplined power rather than uncontrolled dominance
• Consent culture in BDSM compared to other lifestyle communities with strict boundaries and respect
• The importance of communication, asking questions, and understanding partners' desires
• How women in the lifestyle often crave mental connection ("fuck my mind before my body")
• Victor's approach of zero expectations creates deeper, longer-lasting connections
• The red flag of husbands trying to coerce wives into cuckolding without consent
• Recommendations for couples to explore local kink communities as educational resources
Links
Join the Live Chat with Venus July 3rd in the Queens Quarters Community - https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/offers/FTNWndiv/checkout
If you're interested in learning more about kink and BDSM in cuckolding, you can find Victor on FetLife under the profile name "LasciviousNature."
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Here's what's coming up on the show.
Speaker 2:King, and BDSM, by its very nature, is as much about your own psychology and understanding your psychology, because when you understand yourself, you're better able to understand others. You want to understand others. You want to be able to understand what drives them to do X. That level of curiosity sits within a lot of people within the kind of King of BDSM community. There wouldn't be a thing where I'd be like, let's say, for example, if I were meeting a couple and I'm all they're feeling this overwhelming dominant energy, you know I'm literally on the leash, kind of wanting to snap off it and do something More. It will be very controlled, very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's hot.
Speaker 2:And she came in and we locked eyes and I was like, oh, I'm going to eat you, I'm going to devour you, and that that was just on. Look, we didn't speak any words to each other, but she looked at me and she was like she looked like prey, like she knew she was going to be hunted a bit later on in the party, I had some time, etc. And then when I saw her, that was it. I mean, it was. It was just as we like to say colloquially here bonkers, just off the charts.
Speaker 1:What you're telling me is exactly what these women are asking for. Oh my God, everything just clicked right now, holy shit. Everything just clicked right now, holy shit. This is the Venus Cuckoldris podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious, for the passionate and for the sexually empowered woman who wants it all. Let's go, welcome to the show. I'm your host, venus. Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 1:Today I have victor, who is my friend that I actually met in person when I was in London for my meet and greet there, the event that I did recently, and what a conversation that we had, and I thought I have to have this guy on the show. So today he's going to talk about the mind-blowing intersection of BDSM and cuckolding, and I remember what back when I had Dr Justin Lee Miller on the show. He is the author of Tell Me what you Want, the book, which is fantastic, and also he has the podcast, one of my favorite podcasts Sex and Psychology. When he was on the show, he talked about, or he mentioned something about how men who fantasize about cuckolding generally have quite kinky as far as the BDSM aspects of cuckold fantasy less and less so for the women who I've spoken to. So this show is going to be talking all about kink and BDSM when it comes to cuckolding, what that is, what that looks like, how to get into it and all of the stuff that surrounds it. I think that all the cucks are going to find this one really, really interesting. But also for any bulls who might be listening and maybe you're new, maybe you're interested in learning about the dynamic, about submission and dominance and that kind of thing this episode is a great place to start that educational journey, because Victor is a fantastic, experienced person to talk on this subject, so I think you're going to really like it.
Speaker 1:I learned so much from this episode. It's amazing how many conversations and episodes I've done regarding cuckolding and I never stop learning. I took away so much from this show today and I think you are too. I think you're going to love it. But first I have a couple of announcements, just quick ones.
Speaker 1:I'm doing a live chat in the Queens Quarters community on Thursday, july 3. And that'll be at 12pm Pacific Time, so that's 3pm Eastern. It's free for anybody to join. It's a live chat. We're just going to do a regular general kind of Q&A discussion. The last one I did was so fun and I think we talked for like two fucking hours. So it was great. Lots of conversations you can jump in, you can ask questions, you can learn stuff, you can meet people all that good stuff. So check out the link to RSVP for that chat. It's in the description notes for today's episode, or you can just go to venuscuckledresscom. Click on the events tab.
Speaker 1:Second, I haven't asked for this in a really long time, but I'm going to put it out there. If you love this show, please, pretty please, would you rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you're listening on. I would appreciate that so much and it would mean a lot to me. All right, that's it for announcements. Now let's jump into the show.
Speaker 1:Right after this quick message from my friends over at Joy Mode. My friends over at Joy Mode wanted a healthier, all-natural erectile support product, but they only had gas station pills and prescription drugs to choose from. Support product, but they only had gas station pills and prescription drugs to choose from. So they started Joy Mode and partnered with best-in-class scientists and biochemistry PhDs to create their sexual performance booster. It relaxes your blood vessels and promotes stronger blood flow. Scientifically speaking, that means stronger erections and more stamina. Scientifically speaking, that means stronger erections and more stamina.
Speaker 1:Joy Mode is formulated by doctors and PhD scientists. It's recommended by urologists and made with clinically proven ingredients. Joy Mode is both an on-demand and daily supplement, so you can head into the bedroom with confidence. It's discreet grab-and-go packaging that helps you perform best when the occasion arises. Go to tryjoymodecom and get 20% off with the code VENUS at checkout. That's 20% off and free shipping with the code VENUS at tryjoymodecom. Joining me on the show, I have Victor. Victor is a what he calls primal individual and this drives his passions. He's here to talk about how he is a big fan of kink and BDSM in cuckolding in the bull role. So welcome to the show, victor. Say hello to all the listeners.
Speaker 2:Yes, hello. Thank you, Venus, for inviting me onto your podcast. It's really great to be here.
Speaker 1:And we got to meet in person in London. I had a meet and greet event recently in London and I got to meet Victor there and we had a great conversation and said hey, I would love to have you on the show. So I'm really excited for you to come here and talk about your story and you're very unique I don't want to say unique, but I think it's fascinating take on the bull role in cuckolding. So welcome to the show. Thank you, all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you, started a long time ago, if I just kind of put. Let me just put it out there. It started a long time ago. Um, there's, there's a couple of ways of me kind of looking at this. There was I've always had an interest in um, in kink and bdsm, and I know we'll talk more about that, but I've always had an interest in it from a fairly young age, without really understanding why.
Speaker 2:And then in my teens I realized that I had a side of me that felt very dark, very raw, dark, very raw, and you know what I call primal nowadays and you know other primals will understand that it was interesting to have it so young and I used to suppress it. I used to, you know, like no, no, no, no. This side of me is clearly very dangerous. I have no intention of allowing it out, and actually over a long period of time. When you suppress anything about oneself and we can do that when we're teenagers, we're trying to work out who we are, we're trying to understand ourselves relative to our friends and peer group and all of that kind of stuff and I just remember this side felt like I had to hide it, and it wasn't until later on in life, my very late 20s, when I kind of was able to return to it.
Speaker 2:I ended a relationship. I remember thinking to myself one I don't want to make those mistakes you know ended a relationship. I remember thinking to myself one, I don't want to make those mistakes I made in a relationship, again those type of mistakes. And two, I think I need to understand who I am. And then I kind of went and and that understanding who I was was as much about my sexuality and sexual side as well as other things. So, yeah, I just kind of, you know early days of internet and the you know early 2000s, very early late 90s, early 2000s, and there I was in and you know, before I know it I was, um, yeah, meeting people rather unexpectedly.
Speaker 2:And so that was like in kinky spaces kind of thing yeah, it was um, uh, I think the old kind of I don't know they're still around, I suppose uh, you know, kind of adult friend finder and that kind of stuff from way back when, um, yeah, and I would. And there were other kind of more swinging sites from you know that period of time that were quite popular here and yeah, I just kind of looked around, explored, kind of went on them and then I started meeting people.
Speaker 1:And I remember the first couple I met. Was that when you first learned about cuckolding?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean that was the first experience.
Speaker 2:It wasn't even like oh yeah, I just it just felt all right and so I'm meeting these couples, right, okay, fine, and that was that, and it felt natural and it felt very normal and it was really interesting, but less of a community than it might be today, less material to read about it than you would have today in terms of doing research and understanding Cock-holing, what's it about and you know, et cetera, and what's my role, and you can do that today. Back then you just you just didn't have that material. You had to meet people, have your experience and go away and process it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had to fuck around and find out, right? I mean that's what you learn as you go Right.
Speaker 2:And yeah, all on the job, all on the job.
Speaker 1:Oh man, we are so lucky today that we have so much resources and so much information out there to be able to learn about this. But yeah, back then it was just like whatever. And so when you met with your first couple, was it just like regular sex with her or was it kinky at all?
Speaker 2:No, I mean, at the beginning it was very much more regular.
Speaker 2:It was trying to understand so, okay, so you want me, husband, to have sex with your wife, right? And that kind of in my head I'm thinking these things, I'm thinking, okay, this is kind of normal, um, but at that time it was just more sexual because I didn't yet have that mindset and I hadn't fully traversed into kind of kink and bdsm um, and it was basically me meeting more people, um, that then made me transition, made me kind of want to explore the kind of kink side of things. So yeah, at the beginning it was like, wow, this is a new experience. Huh, how do I feel about that?
Speaker 2:You know, it was a lot of that as I went away from them or you know, engaging with couples and trying to understand what do they want, what do they want from me, and also for it to feel good for me as a then young black guy who didn't really know anything about this whole kind of hey, we're, you know, we're into black guys, we, you know the kind of whole black bull thing, bull thing. I mean, none of that was known to me fascinating.
Speaker 1:So I this is this is so interesting to me because there's guys out there who will, you know, be the, the third, the, be the guy to fuck the wife, and it it's all about just having lots of sex. But then there's like the few guys who, like yourself, who have those experiences and something kind of it's like a flip that switches and there's this real curiosity to learn about the dynamic of the couple and how you fit into that and all of that. And I think that's where it kind of distinguishes guys who really enjoy that kind of experience versus guys who just want pussy. So I'm assuming that those experiences for you kind of flip that switch and you were like, oh, I can fuck with this game, like I've, like you get, like you start to understand the mental aspect of it which I think correct me if I'm wrong is a big aspect of the kink and BDSM right.
Speaker 2:Yes, Kink and BDSM by its very nature, and is as much about your own psychology and understanding your psychology, because when you understand yourself you're better able to understand others. You want to understand others, you want, you want to be able to understand what drives them to do x or behave in in y way. Or you know, um. So what were you thinking about when you did that? You know kind kind of thing. So that level of curiosity sits within a lot of people, within the kind of King of BDSM community. You know, and it doesn't matter whether you're a D type, a dominant, whether you're an S type, in terms of a submissive, you know it doesn't matter. If you're a switch, it doesn't matter, you know where you may be, it doesn't matter if you're a switch, it doesn't matter, you know where you may be. You are driven by wanting to understand. So you know, if you come from a more dominant perspective, you want to understand. Well, what kind of submissive individual is this? And even you know there's not one type of submissive individual. There's different branches of that. It could be an obedient submissive, it could be a sexual submissive, it could be a service submissive. You suddenly realize it's a plethora, it's enormous, it's a universe and it's like traveling from one star to another to see a whole group of different planets and then marveling at wow, and then taking that information and and traveling somewhere else and go all right.
Speaker 2:So when I was there, I remember this. This might be of use here. Let me apply it. So everything is is about application, understanding environment and applying it, and my mind works like that as a natural thing. I'm uh, you, you know, let me not say it loudly, but I'm geeky, so you know I might not look it. You've seen me, I don't look it, but you know I am geeky. So everything for me is about how does it work, why does it do what it does, et cetera. Blah, blah, blah. So the the aspect of maybe you know, as you put it, chasing pussy is never going to be fulfilling to me. It was never going to be fulfilling.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that immediately, but I found that out, maybe much more quickly than others might so there's gonna be a lot of people who are listening to this show who are not familiar with the different labels and terms and kinky bdsm, um, what you call yourself a primal what exactly is that?
Speaker 2:well, some people will kind of have, you know, a couple of different definitions because there's different types of primal individuals. To some people their primal sense means they identify with, maybe a particular type of animal. It could be a bear, it could be a wolf, it could be that that kind of instincts of that animal they feel within themselves. So that's kind of one form of having a primal personality. My, um, primal nature is just driven by a very raw base side of me. This part of me is like is, is, is, it's almost. It's like he just goes oh, I can see you and I know you can see me If he identifies another primal individual.
Speaker 2:And then everything becomes like all bets are off from there, literally, and I've had that experience. You know primal partners, partners, you know people I've met. I remember I used to be involved in a party, um kind of you know, uh, actually funny enough, it was a um kind of black guys couples party, uh, and I used to be there and I used to help organize and run the dungeon, and so people would come to me for the kind of kink and BDSM part, those who kind of were interested in that. But most people would be happily fucking the property and enjoying themselves left, right and center. And what I found was really interesting is that a lot of people knew me, but some people would say to me I've never seen you do anything with anyone. Oh, like you come in here and like you don't drop your trousers, you know, you know, like they just they just could not get their heads around it. They just like, and I said, and I used to tell them that I'm here, you know, for you know other people's enjoyment per se. But they said the sex doesn't really kind of, you know, run it for me as pure. It has to have a BDSM element, a kink element to it.
Speaker 2:And on one occasion some guy that I know brought this woman and she came in and we locked eyes and I was like, oh, I'm gonna eat you, I'm gonna devour you, and that was just on. Look, we didn't speak any words to each other, but she looked at me and she was like pray. She looked like pray, like she knew she was going to be hunted. And you know, uh, a bit later on in the party I had some time, etc. And then when I saw her, that was it. I mean, it was, it was just as we like to say colloquially here, bonkers, just off the charts. And it was really funny because afterwards we were just kind of chatting, you know, after we kind of had a session with each other, and she just said I felt you as soon as I walked into the room and I just knew that you know, I had to do as you told me. And I said to her oh yeah, you're primal but you're prey, and she was like what's that? And so therefore, I was just talking to her about that.
Speaker 2:I said it felt very visceral, it felt very raw, it just you couldn't really change your mind about things. You just knew instinctually because it's a very instinctual thing, this whole aspect of being primal is very instinctual. So even the sex is just like, whatever it's going to be, there's no, oh, you do this, you do that. No, it's like hearing two foxes outside, you thinking, wow, you're making a lot of noise. What's going on? It's very, very primal like that. So, yes, when, a when a primal individual eyes another primal, you, you can feel it. It's really I can't. I almost cannot describe it, but anyone who's primal will understand. If someone's listening to this and they happen to be a fellow primal, go. Yeah, I know what he's talking about well, I I love that.
Speaker 1:It comes from a very natural place like this is not something that's kind of floofy, made up or made up on the fly or you you know, role-playing or whatever that. This is naturally just who you are and how you like, what your energy is. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much so, um. And when I, when I was younger, and I had this part of me that I didn't understand, you could imagine that I need, I felt I needed to suppress it because I thought it was dangerous, you know it, just he, it was as if and it was at the time another entity coming outside and going I'm driving the bus, get in the back, victor, I'm in control now, and you know, and my young self be thinking, oh my god, that's too dangerous and what is he going to do, kind of thing. But here I am older, he's integrated into me, that's fine, he's part of me, I'm him, we're one, and so, therefore, there's no real issue with regard to it. I'm just primal. I prefer maybe other primal individuals that I will happily interact with, but you don't have to be, because here's the thing as primal as I am, I don't behave that way with people who are not primal.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I can identify them pretty quickly. They're not, that's fine, I'm in control of it. You know it's all about, about, you know, being in control and being disciplined. Um, and that for me is is, you know, important and easy. But if somebody didn't know they could think, wow, that guy sounds pretty, pretty kind of wild. You know just that that all sounds like uncontrollable, a bit edgy and etc. Anyone who's genuine will understand. Anyone who's genuine has been in it, understands themselves, understand their primal nature, etc.
Speaker 1:Will know when they deploy it from when they don't okay, that's good, I'm glad to hear that, yay, but how is this not a dominant energy? Like, honestly, in cuckolding here this all the time, where a lot of um cucks really fantasize about dominant bulls and um who have that radiant kind of energy? Um, is this, is it? Is it not the same?
Speaker 2:It is the same in a way, because you know people who will meet me I mean, obviously you've had the pleasure, but you know, you know, just in a social aspect will turn around and say, wow, you've got a real energy about you, you've got something about you that just says, hmm, and I find that quite funny because I'm just being normal, I'm not thinking about, hey, I need to project anything there's. There's nothing, um, that I'm thinking about other than, oh, here I am, let me engage with this person, and then, but for them, it's like what they're reading, what they're feeling, is something quite different. So I know that I have an energy that a lot of people react to. Yes, it is a dominant energy, but it's a dominant energy based on the fact that I know who I am.
Speaker 2:I'm clear about that, I can articulate it and I know what my mission is. Articulate it and I know what my mission is and what I mean by that. In saying what my mission is, it's like you know, it's about enjoyment, but it's about enjoyment with a discipline, and that's something that I think will be understood by some people but not by others. So there wouldn't be a thing where I'd be like, let's say, for example, if I were meeting a couple and I'm all they're feeling this overwhelming dominant energy, you know I'm literally on the leash, kind of wanting to snap off it and do something More. It will be very controlled, very disciplined and very clear.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's hot. That's hot Because there's something very powerful about that that's so much more powerful than the out of control I'm going to snap off the leash kind of energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It is different. It is very, very different and some people kind of maybe see it or think about it as a little bit reserved. Maybe it's not quite sure. No, no, I'm pretty damn sure, and there's nothing reserved. But there is no need for an overspill of that energy. You know it's like let's deploy this amount, let's turn around and do this, and you know that's how I like it and other people have liked that too.
Speaker 1:Can you give us an idea everyone who's listening, an idea of what this actually looks like in a cuckold dynamic? This kind of kink, bdsm, primal bull, energy kind of thing? What does that actually look like? Is it typical to what you see in cuck porn? Probably not.
Speaker 2:No, because even when I think about my early days, it's quite different. You do more preparatory work, in a way. You want to kind of understand what the dynamic is between the individuals if they've approached you, or even if you see something and you approach them, you'd be like okay, I want to understand about you and the first thing that you normally turn around and say there's no rush here. Because if someone's in a rush to do something, that tells me um, a lot about them and they're people I will normally avoid yeah, they'd be people I'd be like no thanks, um.
Speaker 2:But if they're more considered in what they're trying to do, what they're trying to, you know, effectuate lovely word, um, you know then it's somewhat different, because they're not telling me oh, you're thinkers, right, you use your brain, right, you know. So there's a. So immediately that falls into kind of that um, psychological bit which I, you know, what are you trying to do? Why are you trying to do it? What experience have you had? What's important to you? What's your dynamic like, you know, et cetera. I want to know that, with a view to nothing, and what I mean by that? No, zero expectation. I'm engaged with you, zero expectation. There should be none from your side, because there's none from mine. Let's see where it goes.
Speaker 2:I have not heard that before. Yeah, it's a different approach and again, I appreciate it's not for everyone, but you'd be quite surprised how many are kind of slightly taken aback, especially as they may well have engaged with other bulls, and especially black bulls, and they've had something quite different, and then they kind of go huh, what's going on here? I think we need to delve a little deeper, I think we're a little bit more interested, and then, before you know it, they're in that space and you're kind of like okay, you're here, that's fine, let's, let's see where this goes, but with zero expectation. And I mean that I mean even down to you know, happily meet up et cetera, and just sit there and have a conversation and then make them go away and think about what they've just experienced. And again, a lot are not used to that. You mean, we're not going to do anything, absolutely not, but you're going to go away and you're going to think about it, and they go away and they think about it and inevitably they're even more interested.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's almost like what it's a mind fuck? Yeah, it's a mind fuck, and that is the psychological aspect, that's a psychological part, you know, um, but oh my god, it's fine for me. It's fine for me because for me it's just like we take our time victor.
Speaker 1:How many times over the last decade have I heard the women in this lifestyle complaining about how they need to feel a connection they need to? They they're all. Just yesterday, I heard a woman say he needs to fuck my mind before he can fuck my body. I mean, women are literally like starved for this mental, emotional connection with this guy, not just a dick in pussy, and what you're telling me is exactly what these women are asking for. Oh my God, everything just clicked right now, holy shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's, it's. I mean it's funny you say that. I mean, look, I'm extremely fortunate that a lot of the people for me in the community here and a lot of my you know, very close friends are women. So I spend my time around women and I engage with them and they talk to me and I'm like wow why, don't men understand this?
Speaker 2:Why do they not grasp how simple it is? But that's driven by this whole kind of thing. Men are men, women are women, and men think that women are different species, whereas actually you know that's a human being. There are lots of intersectional stuff that you both share as human beings, so you can actually engage with this person without making them feel, you know, kind of strange or weird or they're just one thing. Look, I don't want to say that men are lazy, but I am going to say a lot of men are lazy. Um, I'm going to turn around and say that I'm going to be upfront.
Speaker 1:I didn't say it, he said it. I did not say it.
Speaker 2:It feels like it's too much work for them, but at the same time they don't realize how much more work they're doing the way they go about things and how much less work that I have to do going about the things the way that I do. But it looks like it. It it feels like an equation to them that hey, I'm not here to do maths, I'm just here for pussy and so therefore, you know, then, that's what they do, whereas for me it's uh, it's something deeper, etc.
Speaker 2:And the connections are stronger, uh, and so on. And so, therefore, those relationships that I, I make and cultivate, they're deep and they last a long time.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. I can definitely imagine. Now I'm going to ask you about a couple of things, the first one being some stereotypes about kink and BDSM, because I remember when I first got into the non-monogamy world, I jumped into the swinger's lifestyle as a solo woman, as a unicorn, and had so much fun with that and I thought that was kinky and fun. And then I slowly got introduced to cuckolding. I still didn't really understand anything about kink. I remember going on FetLife way back in the day and being like so overwhelmed, like I don't understand any of this. But I think these worlds are very, very separate and there's a lot of misunderstanding and I still feel like I don't know a lot about kink and BDSM. I really don't feel like that's something I have a lot of knowledge about. But what are some of the common kind of misconceptions or stereotypes that you see about kink and BDSM?
Speaker 2:There are a few, but one of the key differentiators between those who are kink and BDS branches of you know adult pleasure, let's say or you know, um, we don't do anything without consent. I don't do anything without consent. If I do not have the explicit, absolute consent of the individual, nothing's happening, nothing. So that means that no husband, male partner of some woman seek to persuade me to do something, as if you know coercion, let's put it that way, right, there'll be no coercive. I don't do anything along those lines. I have zero interest in that, because when an individual hasn't been able to consent to something in some territories it's illegal, but it's just disrespectful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely disrespectful. So consent is a main differentiator. So, for example, if a scene were happening and I was at an event, and let's say it was a BDSM event, this is the way that we behave. Somebody could be having a play session and in BDSM events particularly, play sessions are not necessarily sexual In fact, the Vast Madrug will not be but but you witness things that you'd be like, wow, that's hot or that's crazy or whatever. Um, and there's a whole way that you respect a scene that somebody else is in, or even if it were sexual as well as kind of kink focused, there's a way that you would respect that you do not interrupt it, you do not talk while people are doing whatever, you don't stare them down. There are so many things. They're all unwritten rules but people follow them because they understand what it means to be on the other side. They know that they don't want to be weirded out by some guy masturbating in the corner to their scene. That kind of stuff, in kink terms, is foreboding. It's a no-no, it really is a no-no. Oh yeah, really is a no, no.
Speaker 2:Whereas if you're, if you're in a maybe not a swing club, but a party, sex party, etc. And you know someone's having sex with someone and then, all of a sudden, you know some guy's hand creeps up the leg of the woman while sex is happening or he's grabbing and and you know her breasts or whatever. Like that's almost permitted as almost as like, well, you're in a sex party, that kind of shit's going to happen. Yeah, if that were happening in a, in a bdsm context, and it was just pure sex, even even within a bdm context, in terms of those are the people who are there, that nobody would be able to unless you're invited explicitly, right, invited in, yeah, hey, why don't you come over? And then you know that someone entering the scene and being actively involved in the scene, those two things are decidedly different between the two groups, decidedly so. If you talk to any kinks who go to a swinging club, they normally come back with horror stories and go how? And this guy just kind of came up and he just touched me, da-da-da, because they used to consent. And those guys are just there on the basis of, hey, you're in a swingers club, you know you're at a sex party, you know I should be able to touch you. That is the main difference between the two environments. Wow, and it's that I don't want to say rigid per se, but it's there's.
Speaker 2:There's an ethos to the way that we do stuff, because we will do stuff. Look, I've been in a sex party and I've been doing kink, you know, impact play and and witches could be hitting someone's bank, flogging them, whatever. And I have stopped people having sex through the manner of what I have been doing with my partner because they're like, I'm not used to that. That looks really dangerous, right, that looks like he's hurting this person and it takes them out of them having sex, whereas we're just in the zone enjoying ourselves left, right and center. And if it were the other way around, and two people are having sex and it's a kinky environment, nobody gives a stuff about them having sex.
Speaker 2:So there's a real difference in terms of ethos, and I do bring that in terms of how I engage with people, and I suspect that's why it's so radically different for those who engage with me, because then it's almost as if the world is flipped upside down for them, right, um, when they're engaging with with me, because it's like, oh, I'm not used to this, and then they're more intrigued and they want to know more. And how have you come about this, how have you come to this way of thinking? And then I'll you know if I identify someone like I was identified by a couple. I bet, um, all those those years back and they went oh, you're like us, but you just don't know. And I was like what?
Speaker 2:do you mean? What do you mean? And they talked about you know being on the kink scene and gang stuff and it made me go, oh, yeah, okay, I need to investigate that. Yeah, and that and that couple was my transition, because they were the ones who kind of kicked the door open in my mind as into like, oh, there's more yeah right and that's, and that's kind of where I went. That's that was my. You know, um through the door moment or alice through the looking glass moment, I suppose.
Speaker 1:It sounds like the kink BDSM community has really really fine tuned the whole consent culture and I feel like the cuckolding lifestyle absolutely needs to adopt that. On that note, I've had some conversations about safety in the lifestyle over the past several months and one of the things that I have been really horrified with over the last decade is seeing how many times bulls in the lifestyle get approached by husbands who want them to secretly. They want to arrange for this guy to come and hit on his wife and flirt with her and pressure her for sex and hopefully then she will turn her no for cuckolding into a yes and make things happen in that sneaky, deceitful, coercive kind of way. Has this happened to you before? Have husbands approached husbands, um approached you and asked you to do something like that before?
Speaker 2:Yes, I have. I have had that Um. I still get that on occasion, um, and it's always a no, um. It would be a no from me because it just should be. You know, I appreciate that he's thinking really hard about this experience that he wishes to have and he believes that, you know, his wife will only like it if she understood what it was about, and I just need the right guy to show her what it's about. Yeah, no, you don't, um. But it's hard for them to understand because a lot of men don't really grasp coercion, what it feels like from the other side. They don't understand what it, what it feels like from the other side. They just kind of think that's the normal, you know, hey, you know men and women interaction kind of thing, and it really isn't.
Speaker 2:It really isn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty awful. So along that line of consent, um, and having said that, I really so along that line of consent and having said that, I really really hope that as a community and the cuckolding lifestyle as a community, we take some notes from the kink, bdsm community and really start to build a culture, a new culture of health and safety, but especially for women. How do you personally I know this is a big part of who you are you said it's all about consent and that this is really important to you. What does that actually look like? How do you establish consent and how do you maintain consent through these encounters with people?
Speaker 2:so you establish consent by open communication? Um, uh, the open communication, the open communication part, is establishing an understanding of what's important to them. What are they okay with, what are they not okay with?
Speaker 1:What if she says I don't know?
Speaker 2:If she says she doesn't know, that's fine, because it can be worked out. And what I mean by that is that you know? Do you have an interest in it? Yes, do you know what you like? No, that's fine, you've already established you have an interest? Okay, that's fine, you've already established.
Speaker 1:You have an interest.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's fine, and then I would probably elicit a number of questions to go. So, what do you think about? What are the things that bring you to? You know that you find erotic or horny, make you horny or whatever. So I would kind of use that information as a way to kind of as a guide to okay, so we can maybe go in this direction. You know what is she thinking about with regard to you know the husband or partner, what's important, you know, in terms of the type of feelings that she gets when she's doing X, y or Z or thinking about X, y or Z.
Speaker 2:So what tends to happen is that we're so used to those of us who do, we're so used to asking questions. We can use and frame questions that will guide us, because we're getting that data let's put it that way, I'll put it from a geek perspective that data from that individual that I'll then use, interpolate and then be able to go all right, this is the direction, and then I can reconfirm it with them as well. So it can be a case of hey, you talked about X, y and Z, see how this is. And then they go oh God, I really like that. Or actually, oh god, I really like that, or actually, maybe we could change that. So it's, it's. It's simple when you come from a background of always asking questions okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:It is about a curiosity, but it's about, uh, the willingness to learn and ask the questions, and some people might feel like asking those questions feels awkward, it takes away the sexy component of things and whatever. But I will always remember the very first time that I had a sort of kinky BDSM encounter. I basically like this is back in the swinging days I met this couple who I absolutely love and adore I'm still friends with today who were very into bondage and BDSM stuff, and anyway, they lived in different cities at the time and she wanted to surprise her husband with me as a like a surprise thing. And so she basically just gave him my address and said you know, bring your all your toys and go and knock on the door. And so I was like all excited. I'm like, oh, this will be fun. And so when he answered, when I answered the door, he knocked on the door. I answered it. He's like, oh, it's you.
Speaker 1:So funny. But he had a duffel bag full of all this stuff and I just like, oh, wow, like he brought yeah he brought a fucking machine, a bunch of dildos and like all this like I don't remember, like, like kinky stuff and I was, but he was all I could like. He was so interesting because he was so experienced and knew what he was doing that he used the red light, yellow light, green light thing yeah, you know in terms of that, yeah and safe word yeah, and it wasn't weird.
Speaker 1:It didn't take away from the like heat of the moment and the sexiness of it for me and it felt actually very calming for me, very like. I felt very safe and in doing so I just I felt very relaxed. I was like, oh, he knows what he's doing. I feel OK, like I have the tools to be able to stop at any point in time or say that I don't like this or whatever. It was amazing. Ok, the nickname for the fucking machine was the destroyer. It was so funny.
Speaker 2:Why am I not surprised by that. Why am I not surprised by that?
Speaker 1:But it was the first time that I had been tied up. But he asked me all these questions about that beforehand, like what would you prefer this or that or whatever, and like I just it was great. Now I left that experience thinking like wow, okay, that's really how it should be done, like not just a kinky encounter, but any encounter, any experience that I have there should. I should have that feeling of okay, this is you know, I feel safe here, like this is okay, this is good.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And if you were to, and, what's really interesting, if you were to talk to other women and which I know you do you know they would always turn around and say, wow, I like the idea of being asked. I find that, you know, pretty kind of sexy. But if you want to ask men, if those men come from a BDSM perspective, they go yeah, that shit's sexy. You know we can do stuff when I'm asking questions, et cetera. I know exactly what they like. Da, da, da. But if you were asking men who don't come from that tradition and they're just like, I'd feel awkward.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe asking this you know question because in their minds they're thinking to themselves maybe, maybe she doesn't maybe she might reject me if I really say what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, as opposed to you know we'll turn around and say we're you know? What is it that you want to do? What is it you want to experience, how do you want to, and kind of go from there. So it's it's. It really is quite different in terms of for those who were kind of schooled in an understanding of BDSM and kink and how they approach it, and for those who, you know, just want the fun of sex. They are two very, very different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very, very different. Okay, my last question. This is going to be a fascinating conversation for people to listen to, I'm sure, because there's a lot of couples out there or individuals out there who are listening, who are like, wow, mind blown. I totally would love to go down this road. I would love to explore this. This sounds like a lot of fun. This, this sounds like a lot of fun. Or maybe they're thinking this is something I've always wanted to do. This is a great time for me to actually start to do this. How do couples actually how should couples what would you recommend if they are wanting to go down this road of a kinky, bdsm cuckold dynamic with somebody? How best to do that?
Speaker 2:So I would normally turn around and say you know, doesn't matter where you are, you know, check out your, your local, you know kind of kink community, whether it be socials, munchies, um, as we call them, you know, um, go along, find out, you know what's going on in the local area and to try and understand you know those people and you'll find that most of them are just like you. You just didn't know that you know kind of thing. So you know they're just like you and they're curious and they're interested in X, y or Z and themselves. And then that will kind of let you immerse yourself with people who will mainly be consent-driven. They'll just want to chat to you, They'll just want to do that. You'll find it's not a pressured thing, it's very much a kind of hey, we're social because people in the King Media community they meet up regularly here in London we meet up regular, we're at different events et cetera, and socials, we'll see each other and so on. We're kind of in that way. So we get to then have a wider circle of people. Understand people talk to people about hey, what are you into, what do you like, what's important to you, and so on, and then from there what's important to you, da-da-da and so on, and then from there you get a better understanding of what is the ethos that sits behind those who are involved in kink and BDSM, which will then allow you to then know how someone's approaching you and, more to the point, whether they are genuine in terms of what they say.
Speaker 2:It's easy for some guy to say, hey, I'm a dominant, but not have any understanding of the psychology of dominance, the understanding of how you interact with people, and that, the fact is, being dominant means you have a responsibility, and being dominant also means you have to have internal discipline, self-discipline, and if those things are not there and you don't know anything about king, you could have some bad experiences before you know it.
Speaker 2:But once you kind of have mixed with people and you get an understanding, you're listening to different voices pretty early on and you're hearing a consistency from all these different voices about how people approach things, what they do, why they do it, etc. It will help. So that's what I would normally recommend to those who maybe have a little bit of an interest and go oh right, this, you know, the kinky stuff sounds really interesting, you know, whether it be, you know, rope or shibari as we like to call it, and whatever all these things that you can. You can. You can connect with the community, find out what's going on, build your knowledge and then use that to have your own adventures and experiences.
Speaker 1:I love that. My biggest takeaways from this conversation with you is how you said that all of this is about learning about who you are, is learning more about who you are, but that a big part of this involves learning who the couples are or the other individual is, and that this is all very consent-driven and that that's such a differentiating factor to other kind of lifestyles that are out there. I was just like wow, mind blown. I think it's so cool that you have really shone a light on what all of this is, because, like I said, this is seems like something that so many guys couples really think about and desire, but don't really know how or where to go about finding this, so your advice is definitely appreciated. Thank you so much for being on the show. Where can people learn more about you?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm on FetLife and that's my kind of main space because it allows me to interact with all other fellow kinksters out there. So if someone's listened to this and I'm happy to answer any questions um that people may have um, then yeah, um, you know, lascivious nature uh is my um profile name on fet. Um, uh, literally spelled as lascivious nature fits very much with my primal self. So you know, yeah, um, people can turn around and see me there. So, um, yeah, it's, it's. Look, I've been a listener, um, you know, I have my regular drop of your podcast in my feed, um, and every time I'd be listening I'd be thinking, surely, surely she's gonna have someone on who's kind of coming from a kink and bdsm perspective and talking about how that interacts, and and you didn't I know it's been missing this whole time and you didn't.
Speaker 2:And I've been quite kind of surprised and not surprised because I think you know, when we're in london and we had the conversation, I said look, um, it surprises me how few black men in particular kind of see that kind of kink of BDSM space as one that they can happily inhabit and understand. Well, you know, I know, that that kind of stuff is a colloquialism we don't use over here Freaky. You know, when someone says freaky, I'm like OK, I think it's like outside of your comfort space of self, whereas you know King and BDSM is about you, um, uh, removing yourself from a comfortable space, being in, you know, a space where you challenge yourself, um, in your experiences or that with you know, other people, um, and you know I want and want to see more, um, black men, women, people of color, regardless, involved in it, because it really does benefit you, it really tells you about yourself and allows you to be able to interact with people in a different way. It really does.
Speaker 1:And learn more about yourself along the way. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. No two ways about it. So I'm glad that maybe I was the quote unquote first person to come on and be a guest from that perspective. But yeah, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so happy to have you on the show. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:You're most welcome that's going to be it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Make sure you go to venuscuckoldresscom. That's where you can book a private chat with me, and you can also join the queen's quarters community and get all the amazing benefits, like the private podcast and the helpful cuck tier, where you can get key holding for the private Snapchat group, monthly private chats with me and weekly live hangouts and invites to special live events. Oh, and you can also submit a question or confession for the show. Just go to venuscuckledresscom and click on the link that says the podcast. Make sure you follow me on Blue Sky Social. Yes, I said Blue Sky Social. Fuck Twitter. My handle there is at CuckoldressV. All right, that's it for today's show, you guys. We'll see you next time. Bye.