Winning The Bull Lottery; Vacations and Wedding Ceremony With Your Bull

The hardest part of cuckolding isn’t finding a bull. It’s finding the right bull, then building something that still feels safe, grounded, and genuinely good for both of you. Venus talks with Emma and Ken, a couple who moved from a mostly vanilla relationship into cuckolding and somehow managed to find the right bull early on. The chemistry was immediate, the connection was real, and their dynamic quickly became more than a one time hookup.

The three of them are planning a multi day vacation together and they’re also creating a private ceremony that includes their bull alongside their traditional wedding plans. We talk about confidence, intimacy, aftercare, cuck shame, and the emotional labor that can show up when you love each other and want this to last.

If you enjoy honest conversations about cuckolding, hotwife dynamics, relationship communication, jealousy, and real world boundaries, listen now. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s curious, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

❤️Venus Connections❤️ - Matchmaking for loving cuckolding relationships and female-led relationships. Learn more at https://www.venusconnections.com/

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Announcements

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is the Venus Cuckolders Podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious, for the passionate, and for the sexually empowered woman who wants it all.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Venus. Thanks for joining me today. I have Emma and Ken on today's show, and they're going to be talking about lots of stuff, but they have won the bull lottery. You know how hard it is to find the right bull? They found him, and they found him fairly quickly in their cuckolding journey. So they're going to be talking about that and also how they're going on vacation with their bull soon, and how this year they're going to be having some wedding vows and a wedding ceremony with their bull. So wow, it is such a great story. And they're going to talk about some advice for couples and um some things that have worked for them, some things that have not worked for them, and stuff they're still figuring out. So if you are curious to learn about cuckolding or you're in a cuckolding relationship, this would be an excellent uh episode for you. Before we get started, obviously there's a big soccer tournament going on, football slash soccer tournament called the World Cup. And for this is actually something that I haven't talked about much on the show because, well, it's not cuckolding related, but it is about me. Um, some of you, very few of you, probably already know this, but I am a huge soccer fan. Um, and so I'm excited for the World Cup. I'm gonna be watching lots of games. If you haven't heard from me in a little while, that's because I am going to be glued to the TV screen at the pub, watching the matches because it's gonna be so much fun. I love soccer, I'm a huge fan, but I also play soccer. I play soccer four times a week, um, which I absolutely have the best time doing. And uh so yeah, there you go. I'm a big soccer fan. I'll be watching the World Cup. Another announcement. Okay, I would just really like to ask a big favor from everybody who's listening. If you love this show, uh I would really appreciate it if you could leave a review and rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I've had a few fucking trolls on there lately who are saying some nasty things. So I think it's time to put a call out for all the fans. If you love this show, please consider just going in and putting a rating and review. I would really, really love and appreciate that. Just a couple last announcements, real quick. If you want to be a guest on the show earlier this year, put a call out to uh women. I would love to have more female voices on the show to share their stories about their cuckolding journey. Uh, if you would like to be on the show, you can contact me at Venus at Venuscuckledress.com, or you can just use the contact form on the website, venuscuckoldress.com. And you can also leave a question or confession for the show. I know a lot of you already know that. People tell me all the time their favorite episodes are the confession episodes, which I think are just fucking awesome. So you have up to five minutes to record your confession or your question or your comment. And you can do that if you go to VenusCuckledress.com, click on the podcast, and there's a little spot where you can just send it on in there. All right, that's it for announcements. Let's jump into the show with Emma and Ken. Here we go. All

Meeting At Splash Mocha

SPEAKER_03 4:08

right, joining me on the show. I have Emma and Ken, who I actually met in person, which rarely ever happens. So welcome to the show, Emma and Ken. Say hello to all of the listeners.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Hello, everybody. So glad you could join us today.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

So I met you guys, I don't even know how long ago that was now, but we we met at a splash mocha party, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

We did. We met in Houston, um, Splash. I think it was 2024.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

It was. I think is that the last one I went to? I don't remember now. Um, those parties were so much fun though. I had such a blast. Was that your first one that you went to?

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Yes, that was our first experience at Splash.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Okay, before we get into it though, I like because I'm gonna I want to know all of your story and stuff like that, but I want to ask you because like um I have sometimes on this show I've recommended like newbie couples like go to Splash Moga. Was it like overwhelming for you guys or was it fun?

SPEAKER_04 5:12

It was fun, but I we didn't get there till much later. So we didn't know that like get there on Wednesday or Thursday at the earliest, we didn't get there till after work on Friday. Oh, so you'd like missed out on a lot of stuff like that. A lot of it, yes. And so if we were to go again, that's what I would say to people. If you've never been and you don't know, yeah, go no one told us that. Like we were on the message boards and like talking to people before we went and everything, and no one, not a one, said, make sure you get there before Wednesday or on Wednesday. No one said that. So we're like, oh great, we won't take time off work, we'll just go afterwards, it'll be fine. Yeah, no, it was not fine. I mean, we had a blast, you know, and it was a great experience, but had we known that, that would have been optimal.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Okay, yeah, because there's there's a lot of stuff that goes on every day there. Like there's lots of different like themes and and stuff to do and everything like that. And I guess all like the newbie people meet each other early on in the weekend too, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Yeah, yeah. And I think by the time we got there, most people had like met up with other people. Right. You know, and kind of like divvied off into their little groups and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Agendas had been set.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Playmates had been made.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Love it. Of course, of course. That's the whole point. Um, okay, so let's jump into your story.

From Vanilla To Cuckolding Curiosity

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yeah, are you guys you're not married, but you're getting married, right? How long have you been together now?

SPEAKER_04 6:48

We have been together. Well, we've been together as a couple for eight years.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Okay. Okay. And did and did you start out vanilla and move into cuckolding, or how did you get to where you are?

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah, I would say we started out pretty vanilla. Um, so yes, yes. For us, we started out vanilla. And then I think Ken brought it up one time, and I was like, I'm intrigued. Tell me more. And like going back, like once I tell some of history and stuff, like I think this was always where I wanted to be and what I truly wanted, but I just didn't know that's what it was. And so I was like trying all these other things until I knew, oh my God, this is it. I didn't know that this is what I've been looking for the entire time.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

And that's a road trip in the Venus.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

And yeah, we only listen to your show on road trips when we're together. So then we pause and talk, and then we'll play. Pause and talk and replay. Because we don't have time to do that and like commuting, we don't commute together, you know, and you get home and then it's things to do for the night and prep the next day and just life. So um, that's kind of like our special time is to do that. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Um, Ken, I want to ask you, how did you bring this up to her?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Well, we have known each other for a while before we got together. And so we were aware of our proclivities beforehand. And so uh it just kind of evolved into that. We talked about it and we kind of played around with stuff, but it just didn't work out. And then it really uh took root on um in 2024, she she was cleaning out her closet and she was getting rid of old lingerie, and so she was launch modeling it as well. And my pause my extremely positive response uh I think helped a bunch in in her wanting to explore.

SPEAKER_05 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

And so for that year, she got me for my birthday. She had a boot boudoir photo shoot. So that's what I got for my birthday. And so I I have like she got the book and she did the shoot, and uh, and like that was an experience. That was that was an experience, and there was a little bit of panic on my part because she went away for a couple hours, and I wasn't worried about it until it took her all day. And I'm like, I'm like, I hadn't heard from her for like all day, and I'm like, is she okay? I mean, I can see her location, she seems to be okay, but I wasn't sure, and I hadn't heard. I was just a little concerned that I hadn't heard from her, like even a check-in. That was the main thing. I was like, and uh, so she had a great time there, and then I got my book, and then like the photographer says, Do you want the pictures? And so, yeah, so we ended up getting the whole chute of photos because she looked amazing in them. So yeah, I didn't want to lose the that moment for her. And so once we did that, um at that point is when I signed on to Splash Mocha because I'd heard about it from your from your your podcast. And so then we looked at it and we looked at the one that we could go to, and it was November, that one there in Houston. Because we didn't really want to go to Austin um Florida, Florida or um with Georgia, which were pretty much where they usually are held.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

So and that's how we decided to go to that one. And but that's how we got into it. And we did try a couple times before, but it just didn't work out. Like we tried field, that was a that was a a nightmare. Yeah, that's a nightmare scenario. And um, I will say, even on even on Splash Smoke on the sites, to the guys, put up good pictures in recent pictures, in recent pictures, because people would approach us and I like you remember me? And I'm like, no, because I didn't recognize the person from the photos they they'd had on their profile. So that's something I would say. Make sure you have a good photo that represents you on your on your profile, and that like a hundred yards away.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Do you recognize do you remember me? Well, no, because you were way the fuck over there on the photo.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

So yeah. That that was the that's my advice to guys. Make sure you have a good photo of you on those profiles because there were there were several that we didn't recognize from from being on the board.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

And especially when it's like a torso, that doesn't help. No, you're you're I'm looking at your face. I don't recognize the torso.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

It wasn't a picture.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Just a dick pic.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, it's not helpful, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Um, Emma, so uh going back to when when you guys started to talk about this, did you was non non non-monogamy even like on your radar? Was that how did you feel about that? Or be how did you feel about you know this this person who you love and care about is now you know interested in in me sleeping with somebody else? Like, what were your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 12:06

I am not good at moderation in all things in my life. And so I was very worried about if I do this and I love it, I'm not gonna be able to go back.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Okay, so that was your fear. Was that like you would just jump in and there would be it's a one-way street, there's no going back to it.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yeah, and then afterwards be like, oh, I'm just just kidding. I really didn't like what this did for me or for us. And I don't, I don't think this is really where I want to go. And then I'd be like, well, fuck, that's not okay. Like, because I wouldn't, I just had this feeling that I would love it and not want to go back.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And from my perspective, I was very concerned about feeling like I was she was doing it for me. I I needed her to be doing it for her. I didn't want her to be doing it performatively for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Because I didn't want to be be that person. I was like, no, I I didn't want to feel like I was forcing her, you know, coercing her into doing this. Yeah. And so that's been my perspective, better or less, better or worse on this on this part. No, better or worse, I said that because there there is um uh something that she's not particularly crazy about that perspective from my about my approach to that. But I needed to know that it was because she wanted it, not because I brought it up.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yeah. Yeah. I and let's face it, there are women out there who will just be like, okay, well, I'll try this for you. You know, you want this so bad, I'll I'll do I'll do it for you and see how it goes, kind of thing. But it sounds like that wasn't the case for you, Emma. It sounds like you were like, ooh, this could be fun.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

What if I like it too much? No, because like I don't I don't do like just a little bit. I'm either all or nothing and like all or nothing for good or bad. You know, like I don't like something, hard stop, or I love something, hard stop. There's no in-between.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Yeah. So how long had you guys been together before before you decided that you were gonna go down this road?

SPEAKER_02 14:15

We tried it four years?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Well, we tried that one time before, and that was just a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

We had two false starts. That's probably the best way to say two false starts. Yeah, okay, and yeah, it was it was like both scenarios were like not one we we just were done with, and then the other one we saw again at splash.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Yeah, and and Ken was like, Wait, I think I see so and so. And I was like, no, wait, for real? And so he texted him, Hey, do we see you at Splash? He was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

But that didn't go anywhere, so like, you know what? That's fine.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

And so we saw him and like walked by, we're like, Hey, good to see you here. Hope you have a great time. Oh, is it awkward? A little bit.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Oh my goodness. Okay, so when was the first time I was it at Splash that the first time that you actually like it worked out and you ended up hooking up with another guy?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Well, not the first time you hooked up with the guys because there were the two false stars before.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

So not the false stars. No, you're not talking about that. Yeah, the first the first good one was Okay, so at

Vetting Bulls And Finding The Match

SPEAKER_04 15:27

Splash, yes. So we Ken knows my type, and so he was doing all the vetting on field because with my job and just you know being a mom and stuff too, I did not have the mental capacity to deal with bullshit. Yeah, I just don't. And so he was doing all the vetting for me. And so he knows my type. And so we found this person on Splash and he was like, Oh, I think this is gonna be your type. And so I saw the picture and I was like, oh hell yeah. And so we started messaging on that message board, which led to Telegram. Because that usually happens pretty quickly, I've discovered. Um, and then we talked on Telegram for maybe a month and a half before Splash. And then, you know, it was one of those things where I was like, okay, well, this is my first time. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know if I'm gonna kiss them or not, or whatever. And so at Splash, he comes on Saturday afternoon, knocks on the door, opens it up, and I think I was kissing him within 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

You were feeling it.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, she because she has said, I'm not gonna kiss. I'm like, Yeah, well, whatever, right? Because I know her.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

And again, I don't moderate well.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And yeah, it was, yeah, it was there was, yeah, it was instant. Yeah, I think there wasn't a problem. So funny.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

This is like the number one most common rule that brand new couples have is no kissing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

And that was her rule that she quickly threw out the window immediately.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

It is the first uh rule to really be like, fuck that. Right? Yeah, it is, yeah. Always, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

And so the three of us have been together since that moment.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Okay, so it worked out at splash. Obviously, the sex must have been really good. It's amazing. Really? Okay, what made it so good?

SPEAKER_04 17:29

The false starts, I think, were false starts, partly because there wasn't I and some people that like just want a physical great fuck, that's great for them. Happy for you. That's not my jam. I need to have a deeper connection with somebody. And this person, we already had that, and it wasn't weird, it wasn't awkward, it was just like the cosmic stars aligned, and I can't explain it. It's just the most awesome thing ever.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

So the sex turned out to be really good.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Really good, and it's disappointing because we're not local to each other. Okay, so it's like four times a year that we get to be together, and it's not for very long, but in June we are all three vacationing together, and I'm very excited for like four days. Oh my god.

Ken’s Headspace While Watching

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Okay, Ken, I need to ask you about this. And this time at Splash Mocha when she was within 15 seconds kissing this guy and totally into him, and the sex was off the charts. Where were you when this was happening?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, like physically, I was in the room. I was physically in the room, yeah, yeah. Cause we because uh priority one is her safety.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

And so so I was in the room for for that. So I was like, yeah, I was just in the room and I recorded so that she could have have a keepsake, and then um I just let them enjoy themselves, made sure they had water to hydrate after they were done.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

He was the best. It was like, oh, I've got some cold water for each of you. I was like, Oh, thank God. You are thirsty as fuck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

So I was there to to assist and make sure she was catered to.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Love it. Yeah, you do get really thirsty when your bodily fluids are all over the bed after.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

And I had never really experienced that before. And I was like, wow, that's intense.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yes. Uh so can you were sitting comfy in the cock chair doing some filming? Is that what you were doing?

SPEAKER_01 19:42

I was moving around because I had to I was and I was just taking shots, um, uh, you know, shooting the thing.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

I tried not to uh inter interfere with the uh going on because I don't want to inter interfere with her enjoying the moment because she doesn't multitask well, so yeah, it's like let her enjoy and try to get good shots, which was tough because yeah, well, yeah, it's yeah, and when you're I don't know, as a woman, I think it's it's hard for us sometimes to get our our mind where it needs to be. So yeah, when you have somebody hovering around you with the ring light, her mind is where it needed to be. Okay, but Ken, what was it like for you to watch that, to witness that, to go through that? Like mentally, emotionally, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Okay, this is where I say that for better or for worse, I focus on her comes into play. Because I kind of shut down. I focus on making sure that everything is going well. So I don't have in the moment, I don't have all that cuck angst or anything like that. I I shut down and I'm focused on making catering to the situation.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Oh, you're in service mode.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah, so it's I don't get I don't feel any of the angst at the moment. No, it's not that's not there at all. It's no. I don't even like I don't even and I don't even get around really aroused because I'm just detached from it in in in a way. My that part just kind of shuts down on me.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Oh fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah, I don't have that. Um that in the moment I don't have that at all. No.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

So when did you feel it?

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Like after. It's uh if it happens, it hits after, yeah. And like I there's been one time I was more aroused in it, um, but I was like in the because we we were in a suite, so I I we'd gone out, we'd come back, and so they were going at it again, and I I I wasn't filming this time, so I didn't have to focus on that. I didn't have that to to distract me. So I was just I didn't want to go in or interrupt, so I just stayed there. And our dynamics not that general, you know, the the bold degrading or anything like that. It's not that. It's really a friendly vibe we all have together. So it's it's we're we're all exploring this together. And it's actually he really does kind of insist on all of us being there.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

So yeah. So it's very so I'm I'm present, usually present. Like I was out of the room in that one time at that one point. But most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

And that was more angsty for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

It wasn't really angsty. That was when I got aroused.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Oh, okay. Because you could really like, oh, I love, I love the being there, but not their thing. Like the hearing it, but not being able to see it. There's something about that like sensory deprivation that is super fun.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Yeah, you know, like some of the hotel suites have that like little wooden like barrier divider thingy, and then like the couch or the little tables on the other side of that. So that's what the situation was.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

That's fun. Um, okay, and so everything worked out with this bull friend of yours, and it sounds like it's a very fun kind of um dynamic that you guys have together.

Planning A Real Trip Together

SPEAKER_03 23:18

So, what is this uh vacation that's coming up? You said four days that you're gonna, you're the three of you going away together. Oh my God, where are you guys going? Are you going on like a cruise or something?

SPEAKER_04 23:29

No, we're going to we're gonna fly in, we're gonna meet in Reno. And then we're driving to Great Basin National Park, and then we'll be doing a couple days in Tahoe, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, a couple days in Tahoe after that.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Oh my god, you guys are gonna have so much fun. Yes. So, but this is gonna be different because it's not just like a hookup. This is gonna be like you guys like doing like life things together, and we've done a couple things like that together already.

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Yeah, but not like for this long, it's only been like a weekend, right? You know, not for like four days. I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Because he really likes he likes going to New National Park. So we're going to this national park. He hasn't been to well, they the two of them haven't been to. Um uh so we're gonna go explore that area with them, and then we're gonna go to Tahoe because she loves Tahoe.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

That's my happy place.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Oh my God, you must be so excited. That's gonna be really, really fun.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So is he? Yeah, he's he he we we have a little bro chat that we talk to of.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Yeah, they have their own bro chat that they talk about me on the side with.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Okay. Now I have to ask you this because I know people listening are gonna be wondering, but is this gonna turn into, do you ever see this turning into like a poly kind of situation, a thruple thing?

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Like I could see it turning into a thruple thing. I don't know. And there's always those terms, and then there's your own version of those terms, you know, like it's just such a varied spectrum. Um, but I I definitely could see it that way.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Ken, how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Oh, it's that's good. No, I mean it's it's yeah, I'm fine with that. Okay. I mean, I was gonna say to you earlier. Um uh uh, it's like, yeah, sorry, we ate in front of you, but she just like had the best sex of her life and she needed to eat.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

I was so hungry. I was like, I need drinks, water, and food stack.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Girl, I feel you so much on that. You know it's good when you need a fucking snack after.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

I was like, I don't care what it is right now, there needs to be sus sustenance.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

I've heard this so many times from women. My husband wanted to know all the details about what I did when I was fucking this guy, and all I wanted was to eat my food. I was very hungry.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

I just wanted like a turkey sandwich or a cheeseburger or something. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Oh, that's so hilarious.

A Private Ceremony With Their Bull

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Okay, and so now you guys are engaged and you're getting married this year, right?

SPEAKER_05 26:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Yes. In fact, our bull came in for the engagement and recorded it, which is really why I was like, okay, something's going on. And I had a feeling it was gonna be happening, but then when we picked him up and I was like, okay, yeah, this is really happening.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So he was there when you got engaged. Oh my God, I love this so much. Yeah. Wow. Um, I have all sorts of ideas just like going through my mind right now. If that ever happens for me one day, I'm like, woo. That would be fun. Um so uh and so are you gonna have any kind of like special ceremony or anything like that for your wedding?

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yes. So I I originally brought it up as having a special ceremony before the vanilla one that just and I asked the bull about it too before I asked and before I asked Ken, because I was like, if if he's not on board, then there's no point in doing this. And so he was very quickly on board and was like, what do I need to wear? I was like, well, here's what I'm gonna be wearing. And he was like, okay, got it. I'll wear white linen. Got it.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Oh my god, okay. So tell me, what's the plan for this? What is it gonna be?

SPEAKER_04 27:38

So I don't, it's gonna have to be super low-key, obviously. I really just want it to be like the three of us and the whoever's officiating, although it's not really officiating, you know, because it's not real, real, but to me it is.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Um, so I've got a different white outfit planned for that part of the day. A white wedding dress. No, it's white lingerie.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Oh, white lingerie. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

It's like a white long lacy robe kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Okay, and like the veil and everything?

SPEAKER_04 28:15

No veil.

unknown 28:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

I'm not a veil girl.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Um, yes. So the deal with that is I told her I didn't want to see the wedding dress. So he's seen the wedding dress, and I've seen the pre-lingerie.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Are you guys gonna do anything for like after the wedding together? The real wedding? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Yes, yes. So after the real one, that's the plan. And then the the vanilla one doesn't happen until like four o'clock that late afternoon. So there's plenty of time.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Oh, so so your wedding, your wedding night, you're gonna be with your bull. Yes. Oh my god, that's hot as fuck. Right. I'm gonna have trouble concentrating on what I'm supposed to ask you next. God damn it.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

He was gonna come in the honeymoon with us, but just logistics and stuff didn't work out.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

So yeah. Oh, yeah, that would have been really nice. Oh no. You can celebrate every anniversary together afterwards. Yes. Oh my god, this is so like so great. I love everything about

Kinks They Keep And Kinks They Skip

SPEAKER_03 29:26

this. But Ken, I want to ask you, you said that um, like you're really not into the humiliation teasing part of cuck holding or anything like that. It's very like really kind of friendly um dynamic that you have with this bull. But is there anything, um, kinky that you're really into when it comes to cuckolding? Like, I don't know, size or stamina or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

It's not that I'm not into it. We don't have that dynamic, is what more what it is at this point. And the and she's not comfortable with that. That's not her thing. So that's so that's where it is. Now we did try going to a female dominatrix group, and we went to an event, and that was kind of fun. We we talked to some of the people there, and that was interesting. And that was like just like this is probably not what she really likes. Um, because there was a lot of interesting things that they were, they were they were they were enjoying themselves, and it was not it was non-sexual because that was very clear the the the rules for the for the for the uh party. Um and so that was that was different. Um but I am open to it, but she's that's not her thing, and we have gone on exploring the fact that she does very much like uh having her her lovers be uh black men.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Okay, so the interracial aspect is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

She very much is and she very much, and that's very much something she enjoyed, so we play a little with that, yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Okay, yeah, I can relate.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Like I can't go, I can't yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Well, and okay, so with the the two false starts, were those guys black?

SPEAKER_04 31:12

Okay, one of them was because we saw them in the flash. Um, and then the other one was not.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

And that was the first false start.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

And then the second false start. And I do have somebody more loc that's local here, but if my bull were to say, you know what, like I'm the only one you need, I'd be like, okay.

unknown 31:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

So at the same time, four months and be, oh god.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a lot to ask. Um, yeah. Yeah. So Ken, I want to ask you, where did these desires come from? Is this something that you've always been into?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

I've been into it for a while. I don't know if I'd say, well, you know what? Probably always, yeah. When I sit there and think about it back to Yeah, it's been there for yes, since at least my yeah, before in my teens at least, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

So I've you brought it up to girlfriends in the past?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yes, I had, and that they didn't work out, and that didn't work out, and so that's how I was very much aware that you cannot ask someone to do this if they don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

And that's why it was important to me that it had to be on her terms.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Because I'd been there like if I'd been let on that they were interested and it wasn't the case, so that was not a good ending, really. So um that's why I was very much aware that yes, it needs to be centered on her, and she has to want this. You can't you can't force this, and I I won't make someone, it's wrong to make someone do something that they're not comfortable with and they don't want to do.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

So that's why I had had that and I was happy that she wanted it. I mean, I I I did, it took even after we we had gone through, I had still needed to make certain that she it was because she wanted it.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Even after we'd done it, it's like, no, are you sure this is because you wanted it and not just because okay, and and Emma was she just was like jumping right into it.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

She's like, this is fucking amazing. I love this. Was there any part of you that was just like, oh shit, like I wasn't expecting her to love it this much?

SPEAKER_01 33:27

No, no, because I know how she is about about about not have her her all or nothing nature. I know she doesn't do things in moderation, so I but I needed to make sure it wasn't it was sincere.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

And she wasn't doing it to cater to me. Okay.

Where Desire And Shame Come From

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Um, did you ever, Ken, did you ever struggle with any kind of like huck shame or anything like that along your journey?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Shame, well, yeah, I guess so. Yes, I had, yes. I had. Because it feels like why why do you want this thing and and feel somehow broken for wanting this thing, especially when I was with a partner who was unreceptive.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

And that and it was very difficult to to reconcile that because it's like I I want and need this, but this person was unwilling. And that's nothing wrong with this person, that they just don't want this.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And so that was really tough. So there was a great deal of shame in in how could I want this and still be normal. Right. Because I mean, you see, uh there's plenty of stuff on porn, but porn has all sorts of stuff that I'm not interested in, right? Yeah, and it's just stuff that's there to titillate you, but it's it it was just it was more than the titillation of of it than that it's I want I needed my partner to enjoy it and be pleased and satisfied. So it it wasn't just for show. It couldn't just be just for show.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

For me. And that's why and that seems like a lot to ask of someone.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it seems like you met the right person. Um Emma is all in. No wonder you guys are getting married. You're like, yep, this works. We're good. Yeah. Um, Emma, I want to ask you uh, what's

Confidence Gains And Deeper Intimacy

SPEAKER_03 35:30

in it for you? Like what has been in it for you as far as like going down this cuckolding road together with this person who you love, and in that moment, or in your relationship, how has it affected you and how has has it affected your relationship?

SPEAKER_04 35:48

This is gonna sound really weird, but it makes me feel more confident and sexier because it's not just one person, and I will not lie, Ken does an amazing job like multiple times a day. Like, fuck you're amazing, or just like all here a random damn, and I think something's wrong. He's like, You're fucking gorgeous, like every day. But there's something different when it's confirmed by other people, and I don't know if it's just like a lack of my own self-confidence, probably, but um I love that aspect of it. That's helped my confidence a ton. And in a weird way, I feel like I'm closer to him.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

That's common, that's so common, yes, to have that kind of like next level connection together. Yes, and I don't know if I don't know if that's like something that's like really common in just in kink in general, or if this is cuckolding related, but I don't know, but like I just I do know that you guys end up having this, like it's almost like you are um emotionally naked with each other, which therefore you feel like wow, this is like an intimacy that I've never actually experienced before.

SPEAKER_04 37:10

Yes. And it's like to be vulnerable enough to do that, like that is the ultimate dedication and signifying that you truly love someone, that you're willing to let them go do what they want to do to be themselves and have enough confidence in yourself to know that like I'm this is where I'm coming home to, though. Yes, that's that's amazing to me.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Do you guys like to have like reconnection sex or um pillow talk afterwards?

Aftercare And Emotional Labor Reality

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Like, what's your favorite kind of aftercare?

SPEAKER_01 37:47

There's not been a lot of pillow talk.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

No, because I'm so fucking tired, and you're like, I'm hungry, I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

And okay, because because there's doesn't it doesn't necessarily need to be pillow talk when we're with our bull army, yeah, with him. And I really don't know what she does with the other person. She she doesn't really tell me anything.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Like I tried to send pictures and stuff, and that wasn't arousing. And then I was like, okay, well, then I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, you know, I'm like, I'm still trying to find what that other thing is for him, for Ken, just because you know, I want it, I don't want it to just be this horrible angst the whole time, and then there's this wallowing for days afterwards, and that's brutal.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Have you experienced that? Yes, yeah. Oh, see, I I talk about cuckolding so much like over the past decade, and I don't want to think that I'm like painting rainbows on it at when I, you know, should be talking about like the real shit, but like there is real shit, like there's real stuff that goes on that's not just like, oh, this is lovely, this is amazing, and blah blah blah. Like it's all gumdrox, gumdrops, and rainbows, but like there's there's a real side to this of an emotional toll that it can take that yes, and I had to do a lot of work on like because I'm not a very normally like affectionate person physically.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Um, and so that's what he loves, though. That's kind like one of his love languages, and so especially after I've been with my bull, it's really hard for me to then be overtly physical back with Ken again, just to like reaffirm. And so then that's a downward spiral for both of us, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Yeah, you know, it is something I've not talked a lot about on the show at all, but something that I've coming to understand is like a real thing is the emotional tick caretaking role that women in a cuckolding marriage or cuckolding relationship have to take on. Because it's um, it is, it is a thing, like, and because you love each other and you care about each other and you want, but really it is an emotional caretaking role where you have to figure out, okay, what's gonna do it for this guy so he so he feels good, so he feels like like he you know is enjoying this, that this is beneficial for us, and like the you know, you're mindful of the harm that can come to your relationship if you don't get it right. Um, and that's like a lot, that's a whole nother job of mental labor that we're taking on as women that isn't necessarily fun or sexy when you sign up for cuckolding, but it is something that you have to think about like, okay, yeah, I need to make sure that this person who I love is taken care of. And sometimes it's a fuck around and find out kind of process, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

So I've had to do a lot of growth. Like I think he's more emotionally mature than I am, kennis by far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

And is this something that you talk to your bull about? Like, uh do you confide in him about this? No.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

No. No, just because that's something that I want to keep between us.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

You know, interesting. Yeah. So do you see yourself evolving? Like, I know you guys are still kind of like, you know, in the newbie stages of things and like just you know, enjoying stuff and seeing what you like and stuff like that.

Trying On Dominance Without The Script

SPEAKER_03 41:33

But do you see yourself evolving? I know you talked about the going to a dominatrix group and like learning things um like that, but do you see yourself kind of like trying different things when it comes to dynamics?

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Yes. So I tried and failed miserably. Miserably. And I came home from work and he works from home three days of the week. And so it was a day he was working from home. So I come home from work and I push him back from his computer and I went, go upstairs and take your clothes off right fucking now.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

It came off as angry.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Oh my god, what did I do? Oh shit. Oh my god, you guys are so funny. So that didn't go well. Well, you tried it on precise anyway.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

I mean, good for you. You know, this this character is still evolving. I don't know who she is yet. Give me a time, give me time.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

You need to have some sort of like silent cue so he knows, like, oh, oh, okay, this is where we're at right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

What is none of that? There was no preparation, no nothing. I just pushed him back from his chair.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Oh, and he was like, shit, what did I do wrong?

SPEAKER_04 42:58

She's pissed about something, not know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

I was trying to done something wrong. I yes, that was then just no, I was trying to think that's that didn't come off.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

It didn't land the way you thought that's how awkward as fuck the humiliation thing, the teasing thing can be in the beginning. Oh my god, it sounds like I remember when I was like trying it on for size, and oh my god, I just I felt I was like, this feels the more like the most fake shit I have ever said, like ever in my life. Like that I can't believe that anybody would fall for this. So I get it. You just stumble your way through things and then you figure it out eventually. And sometimes it takes a long time, but it might and now I'm like, dude, is there like classes? Like, can we go learn how to do this? Yes, yes, there are classes. There's uh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know that there's um there's people I see online who offer um classes on dirty talk and pegging and all. The things. So, like, if you have a curiosity where you're like, like maybe we should just dip our toes in this or something like that, where you're both interested, there's definitely resources out there for you for sure. Just have to look them up. Yeah. Um, okay, and so you're I know you have like an uh your bull right now who is like everything for you and you love him and everything like that. But what it what is for you your type? Like I know you said you need a connection with somebody, but physically, what is your type? We know he's black, but what else about him?

SPEAKER_04 44:38

Um very athletic build. They need to be ripped, not like like scary ripped, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:45

But defined.

SPEAKER_04 44:48

Yes, I'm a fit person. So somebody that doesn't put that kind of effort in is not okay. Like I just can't, I'm not into it.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

And can Ken, when you when you came into this, like I obviously, like, I'm thinking that you have this like perfect bowl in your mind. Did it line up with what she likes, or is there something that you're like, oh, I have to compromise?

SPEAKER_01 45:12

No, no, I I won the interracial thing was fun, and so finding him, I was like, okay, uh, when I saw the pictures, like, okay, this one here, because I was looking through who it's gonna be at in in Houston, yeah, and that's when I said, Oh, uh these have potential. And yeah, so a few of them, a few of them we conversed with a couple of them, and he's the only one we actually that actually worked out. So we got really lucky. It's like, yeah, when I saw the pictures, I'm like, okay, yeah, this this'll work. The one thing is the his first picture he had a beard, and she's not particularly crazy about beards, but in other pictures he was clean shaven. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, this this'll work for her.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

So I knew we know him. I think you do.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

You might we'll we could talk we could talk later.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

I wonder if I fucked him before.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

But uh yeah, when I saw when I found out the uh when I figured out like, okay, she likes this. And and there's there's the thing, it's like saying it and then doing it are different things.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

So that was that was like when when she pounced on him when he came in, it was pretty much certain that, yeah, okay, this one this one worked out. Yeah, there was there was no doubt pretty much immediately when the door was opened that he that he was he was her type.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Well, and like picking me up off of my feet was oh did he do that?

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Did he actually like pick you up?

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Oh and I was like, I'm done. I'm I'm here we go.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

That's very hot when they do that. I just don't like it when they like try to pick me up and fuck me in the air, like that. I don't like that. It wasn't that okay, yeah. I don't know why some guys are obsessed with that, but I'm just like, it's not hot. I'm like thinking you're gonna drop me, like it's awkward as a fuck.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

I'm trying to like squeeze my legs around so I don't fall. And it's yeah. No, but it was just yeah, like spider monkey, this guy. But it was just like so happy to finally meet me in person, that kind of like embrace picking me up off of the ground. And I was like, Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

I think it helps that you guys have been talking, you were talking for what, a month, a month and a half before that? Yeah, that helped. Instead of just like some random dude online that you've been talking with for four days and then meet up. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Or or he sat across for a moment. Oh fuck him. Like, that's just not my job.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Yeah. Did you at Splash Mocha was he the only guy that you hooked up with?

Playrooms And What Surprised Them

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah, he was.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

It really was because all the other ones didn't work out. We did meet tried to contact you, yeah, didn't didn't work out.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Everybody's schedule was already booked.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah, their their dance cards were full.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

So well, so was his. Yeah, so was our bowls, but yeah, she um uh found time to squeeze me in.

unknown 48:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

And then we came down for the uh the lingerie night.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Yeah, for a black and white night. Oh yes, yes. Did you go into the playrooms? What did you think about that? Yes, yeah. We went into one of the playrooms. We did two.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

We went to the one where because they had the she was he was flogging the one one was flogging uh a woman in the one, and then the uh the nightclub was awful. Yeah, I was like we were expecting something to be like that. It was just dead, there was no one in there, and then um uh the uh the group the the gangbang room, which was really that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

I was excited about that, and then we get in there and I'm like, weren't we?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah, that one was a little bit and then we we went to the uh glory hall room.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

I was there, you were I sure as fuck was yes, I ran that shit all weekend long.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

And then because that those are the all early rooms we got to. We did, we're kind of bummed we missed like the bunny demo.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

Oh yes. I just got a motor bunny. Oh my god, I'm lucky. Oh fuck yes, I am very lucky. Yeah, um, it is amazing. I fucking love it, it is incredible. A motor bunny for those listening. This is like a sibian but different brand. It's called the Motor Bunny. It's like one of those ride-on uh toys, like it's substantial, it comes in a huge fucking box, like it thing is so heavy. Um, but it's got like the dick, and you've got like the vibrating thing, so it's got like the whole everything, and you're on top, so you can just ride the shit out of it, and it is so fun. Oh my god, but it is loud, my poor neighbors. It is so it was so loud. The vibration on this thing is insane. It's so loud, it's like it sounds like aircraft taking off. It's just me launching into space because it's fucking so amazing. But anyway, yeah, the glory hole room at Splash Mocha, that was really fun. I came across the biggest dick I have ever seen in my life. Um, and it was belonged to this like really, really, really tall guy. And sometimes that doesn't always equate, you know, the tall guys, super tall guys, but this guy, oh my god, and it was like the Goldilocks of um of glory holes because like the first one was like, okay, this is okay. And then like I moved down to the next one. I'm like, oh, this one's a little bit bigger, and I moved down to the next one. Serious, and I was like, okay, this one's good. Like, look at this one, ladies. And then I went to the last one and I was like, what the fuck? I was like, this is the biggest, most beautiful dick I have ever seen in my life. I was like doing the forearm comparison. I was like, holy fuck, look at this fucking thing. I was so impressed, you guys. I had to actually like peek around the wall and be like, whose dick is this? Who does this belong to? This is a fucking immaculate specimen. So anyway, I could not get that whole thing in my mouth. I I would have had to remove a whole lot of teeth, probably all of them, just to be able to try. And it probably still wouldn't uh have been able to get it down my throat. Like, there's just no way. It was so massive. I was just like, wow. Size Queen Dream right there. Anyway.

Practical Advice For New Couples

SPEAKER_03 51:47

Um, so I before we wrap this up, I just want to um ask you both because you're in this like really fun stage of trying this all out, you know, you know, figuring out what works, what doesn't, and stuff like that. And there's probably a lot of people listening right now who are in the same kind of or um situation where they're just not quite sure, they're kind of figuring it out. What kind of like things have you learned that works well and what doesn't over in this whole like this whole process? Any kind of advice that you have for people who might be um going down this road or thinking about it?

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Honestly, I think meeting going to event and meeting people is probably better than any of the apps because those are just a nightmare. I got to see what a woman experiences by by being her, you know, sex secretary, you know, and oh my gosh, thousands of thing of of responses, and it's just insane. Yeah, so yeah, honestly, an event is really probably the best way, and it doesn't necessarily have to be splash, it can maybe just be like a local group thing or something. Because I don't know how to find those, unfortunately, because that's really kind of hard to do. Um but that would probably be what something I'd suggest is that it really did make a difference because you even if nothing because we went down with the expectation, nothing we had no expectations going down there. It's like nothing has to happen. That was we had no plans, like that was like this. We're just going down to slide it out, you know. And like I said, she felt it out as soon as the door opened.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

It was I felt it out.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

She was done. She was obviously fine. Um, and yeah, I would say it really that really did make a difference. It was the apps are just kind of a nightmare, it's just hard to find. They're so flaky, yeah, and people lie, and you you don't know it's it's only gotten worse. I don't think it's gotten better at all for that res in that respect. And I can't imagine what it's like. Okay, I can't imagine since I looked at it. It's awful. I I feel for women doing that because having gone through her apps, like, oh my gosh, there was just literally thousands. I want to say there was over 10,000 likes or something like that. It was insane.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I think I I'm on the I'm on the our I was on the Field app, and I think it's at like 16,000 likes or something like ridiculous.

unknown 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

I'd love that suggestion to meet in person. And I think that the events are great for that because as as far as like play events go, you can get dolled up, and there's something to be said about getting that like you know, sexy atmosphere going and being able to wear all the sexy things and stuff like that that helps you kind of like get in that frame of mind.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

And you know, no one there is gonna be judging you, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Everybody else is dressed to the nines too, right? Everybody else is flaunting it. It's like sexually charged atmosphere where also it's easy to approach people, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:03

We're not talking about a restaurant out in public, we're talking about a private event, or like a random bar or something, like it's just not and I still say for guys, get a good picture that that's representative of you as you are right now.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Um yeah, you're saying this, they're not gonna listen.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

It's it was awful. It's like really we that there were several people. Do you recognize me? No, I legit literally don't recogni remember you from the from here.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Yeah. This is like an endless problematic thing of the shit pictures. Like it's just I don't know that that's gonna and I don't know what you would add.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

Um, yeah, make sure you want to do it for you. And I did. I mean, I really did want to do it for me.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

And it it will be tough. Just it it's not gonna be easy. It's not all be fun, it's not gonna be all rainbows and butterflies. There will be tough moments, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 55:58

Like I said earlier, it's not I we don't I don't talk about that enough, but but it is true. It is there's also the the side of this that's not sexy and fun and wank material and you know, all the things. So yeah. Well, thank you so much, both of you, for coming onto the show, sharing your story. I'm so fucking excited for your guys' wedding, for your vacation that you have coming up. Like, oh my god, I'm so I don't want to say jealous because I'm not jealous, but I'm just like, damn, that's hot. That's so exciting. I'm like really, really excited for you guys. So I really would love to do an update after and hear how all of that goes. Cause like that would be fucking amazing. That would be amazing.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

After the after the vacation or after the wedding?

SPEAKER_03 56:45

Um, both.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

I mean, like both. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

For sure after the wedding. For sure. Okay. That'd be amazing. Um, so thank you so much, both of you, Emma and Ken, for coming on and sharing your story. It's been so much fun.

SPEAKER_04 57:01

Thanks, Venus. It's been a blast.

Closing Links And How To Connect

SPEAKER_03 57:06

That's gonna be it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining me. Make sure you go to VenusCuckoldress.com. That's where you can book a private chat with me. And you can also join the Queen's Porters community and get all the amazing benefits like the private podcast and the Helpful Cup tier where you can get key holding for the private Snapchat group, monthly private chats with me, and weekly live hangouts and invites to special live events. Oh, and you can also submit a question or confession for the show. Just go to VenusCuckledjust.com and click on the link that says the podcast. Make sure you follow me on Blue Sky Social. Yes, I said Blue Sky Social. Fuck Twitter. My handle there is at Cuckle Just V. Alright, that's it for today's show. You guys will see you next time.